Can an efoil battery catch on fire by itself?

EFOIL.builders Electronics (ESC, remote, batteries)
21

Found the post I was referring to:

22

As i said I had several DIY Li-Ion batteries failures in water
 all of those died peacefully
I even dispose Li-Ion batteries in salt water if I want to completely discharge them for safe disposal
And I had battery fires whith short cuts of batteries too. I know how this looks like and what is happening
 Thats why I dont believe this story happened the way he tells it... Its different to the newspaper story too
 so maybe in his situation I would tell the same to get someone responsible for the loss

You start to blame me for wild accusations telling me I know nothing
maybe you should ask yourself why you insist that hard telling everyone his story
I dont want to argue with you who is wrong or wright...just believe whatever you want... its not my case and I have no time to argue with you about this stuff
 Maybe you should take a LiIon Cell and test yourself, Put in in water, let it settle for one week in a safe steel storage or with “pyro bubbles” and then wait when it will start burning or exploding in way that nothing is left of it :hugs:
So I®m out of this discussion now, so you can try to sell this story to the other DIY guys here
 Most of them work with LiIon batteries and understand how handle those


23

This video doesn’t demonstrate the product possibilities.
The video of Extover, the competitor, is a step up. It shows their 'bubble" material can protect the packing carton containing a burning battery :star_struck:

1 Like
24

Looks nice. I like this pyro bubbles
tested shortcuts on Lipo`s with those myself. And I always charge them just putting a big bag of those pyro bubbles on top, then I feel safe and sleep well

However Li-Ion batteries with bms are much safer. I trust those without the pyro bubbles :sweat_smile:

25

For 30L, Pyrobubbles 200€, Extover 50€ (mostly in EU I think)
Many people here don’t trust Li-Ion batteries even with BMS (especially since Wardy’s van story). Those granules are a must have.

26

Ok maybe I should think about those Extover, quite a difference in price
looks as if they are very similar to pyro bubbles
Thanks for the hint :call_me_hand:

27

There is no such a thing like dying of li ion battery to begin with! to even be a peaceful or not! What dying means? It has zero technical or engineering value. Li-ion can catch on fire and for sure salt water CAN cause corrosion over time to lead to internal or external short then thermal runaway and we all know the rest of the story! If you got lucky that is your story to tell. These capacities and number of cells we are dealing here are no joke! There is an absolute chance average customers will drop or expose the pack to salt water! That is why every single pack sold in US needs to meet some curtain certifications otherwise when it gets in to legality company will lose it in first session! Waydoo might go away since they are not US based but it will cost them US market at some point.

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that was not my point! I said I had LiIon shortcuts as well
 But it never happened that they burned completely or disappeared
 like in the story above
furthermore different story from fireman and No official authorities investigated and said yes it was this battery as he be believes
That still makes the story not making sense

But your shure you are right in that point, always take care with Li-Ion batteries
and I just wanted to say that most of the guys here will know, that if they drop their battery in water and afterwards “drain 2 cups of water out of it” this battery is unsafe
 It has to be stored on a safe place and definately do not charge it until you know whats going on inside


2 Likes
29

An accident that comes at just the right time for the main players in the market, sowing doubt among potential buyers.
Who’s to blame ? Unskilled customer or technical support ?
First Waydoo IP67 battery to suffer this sad fate. The evidences have been destroyed in the fire, could this be reproduced in a lab ? Did this battery fall to the ground ?

image

30

I kinda believe in the possibility of a non technical support member giving advice to charge it,language barrier, lack of proper protocols and training in chaotic startup company. Instead they have to have a proper instructions in the manual and by support team to safely dispose leaked or damaged pack

1 Like
31

I just want to make one point; it’s a numbers game. You can’t stop a fire starting. But you can design to manage it.

So the rate of failure in Korean cells is ~1 in 5,000,000. Typical pack has168 cells, means you get a trigger cell every 30,000 packs.

Rate of leaks in packs from real use ~1 in 1,00 perhaps? Probably higher. Salt water is known to trigger fires.

Rate of component failure in protection circuits? 1 in 100,000 circuit boards. Then they have no protection in charge, discharge, etc.

The list goes on, and you can add all these up to see that it’s going to be a portion of eFoils, eJets, eWhatever’s each year that have potential to catch fire.

What is really important is how the system is designed to deal with, detect, contain and stop a fire.

That’s the real question. Is that Battery design to survive an inevitable trigger cell fire? I don’t know of a single battery that has an infallible seal? Or redundant seals.

I haven’t seen one that has a way to deal with the pyro-venting you get when a cell decides to become a firework. Or features to stop sideways propagation of the fire.

I haven’t seen material selection to keep the seals intact when hot in the sun, or to deal with the heat from failure and not add more fuel to the fire.

All the batteries I’ve seen are really wild-west, done quick. Its a statistical certainty that a bad fire happens in a bad place.

32

Anyone in Europe that has a useless or u/s efoil battery or one he would fund to me?
Would like to do some tests with it and with some protection cases


33

According to a team of Penn State engineers who are looking at lithium iron phosphate batteries that have a range of 250 miles with the ability to charge in 10 minutes.

Wang’s team modeled this battery using existing technologies and innovative approaches. They suggest that using this self-heating method, they can use low-cost materials for the battery’s cathode and anode and a safe, low-voltage electrolyte. The cathode is thermally stable, lithium iron phosphate, which does not contain any of the expensive and critical materials like cobalt. The anode is made of very large particle graphite, a safe, light and inexpensive material.

Because of the self-heating, the researchers said they do not have to worry about uneven deposition of lithium on the anode, which can cause lithium spikes that are dangerous.

Some russian brand “ArtFoils PRO BOARD” - used type of battery LiNMC
https://www.doskasveslom.ru/catalog/hydrofoil/elektro-foil/jelektro-fojlbord-artfoils-pro-board/