For those of us who aren’t skilled enough to build an efoil from scratch, is there any reasonable option for a plug & play efoil kit that will ship to the United States currently? The Elevate kit looks great, but they will not ship to the United States. I’m looking for a motor assembly, wiring, ESC, controller, and battery that can be easily affixed to any foil board. Everything needed to get out and fly on the water.
I’m open to the idea of getting the Flying Rodeo motor assembly and mast, but gathering and assembling the rest of the parts needed to complete the efoil is intimidating for someone like me who has very little experience in this regard. Also, Flying Rodeo won’t return my emails, so I’m not sure if they have the motor assembly in stock or if they will even ship to the United States.
I was planning on getting the E-Takuma, as it’s half the price of Lift and was supposed to be available this summer, but unfortunately I spoke with Takuma’s United States distributor/dealer and Lift swooped in with their attorney’s and stopped them due to the patent. It appears that the E-Takuma will not be available for purchase in the United States for the foreseeable future. Are Lift and their attorney’s going after efoil kits and motor assemblies in the United States as well? Could that be the reason why no kit is available?
It is very surprising that in the Summer of 2019 there is no efoil kit of some sort available for purchase in the US. This seems like a great opportunity…
There we are. This seems to be the beginning of a sad story. It will be interesting to see if:
Fliteboard are protected from LIFT’s greed in the US with their ESC above the mast patent,
@VeFoil and his brand VeConcept are protected from LIFT’s greed in the US with their jet drive,
Europe becomes LIFT attorneys’ playground as well with all the prior art around.
You can try the French solution from Pwrfoil - Foil électrique pour Surf et Stand up Paddle - E-foil. They are out of the patent with their stick and play setup under the board. They start shipping in Europe in a few days. Their export price should be around : 4990€/1.2 (exVAT)x1.13 (EUR to USD)= 4700USD + shipping and US import taxes.
Wishing you luck and courage !
Personal message: hey @chris why don’t you venture with Gong ? Their foil creativity with your electronics skills plus you speak the same language
eGong or Gpwrfoil, we don’t care
Do we know, what are the patents that Lift has applied for, would be nice to know? Must say, its really disturbing with these patents, still surprised they apparently went through…at least so far.
: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market
I don’t think Lift is in the wrong here enforcing their patent.
They made a massive R&D investment, took the risk and proved the concept before most people knew it existed and definitely before anyone knew it was technically or commercially feasible. The patent system is far from perfect but this is exactly what patents are designed to protect.
Fliteboard looked like they were pretty close behind Lift. Hopefully they can capture a bunch of the market as well.
I have nothing against patents, especially when something new is invented. However patents can also be used to limit competition. As such efoils are a new thing, but in reality basically all major principles and parts has been used in other application so much long time before, that I am having a hard time understanding what is the new invention Lift has done so that they are entitled to prevent competitors to entering the market( if that is the case, don have confirmed knowledge about that). If that really is the case, its basically only hindering further development and keeping the prices probably very high.
If understand correctly, they are basically patenting the whole basic principle of an fixed wing e foil.
The question is. Was LIFT first one having this idea(2013), was it their own idea or was it so they they seen a chance to apply for the patent, because no one else did it before?
Well the television got patented by a guy who improved the design of the original. Different design technology but still not the first TV. He beat the others to the claim.
I dont think a patent on any technology hinders growth and development but rather induce creative advancements. Stirs up competion. (Make a better product with unique features).
What usually hinders growth is consumer interest . Why make something nobody wants.
Lets get creative and sell everything in kit form. No product patent infringement. Just off the shelf parts. (You can buy every individual part of an e-foil).
Then now create a company that assembles these parts for a fee.
I totally agree with you, for ex the 1993 Kitesurf wing patent where the Legaignoux brothers made tens of prototypes. They built a success from an improbable idea.
But are you going to maintain this opinion after you read (again ?) all this 2008 prior art ?
In addition to that, can a efoil patent holder intimidate (threaten) my European manufacturers for selling spare parts if I want to make a propulsion set with my Flying Rodeo or Elevate mast and pod to go fishing or to drive the family around the lake ? How could a judge possibly accept that ?
Take a ready developed wind foil board, add a electric motor and then patent the “innovation”…and keep the competitors of the market…Great! IMHO Most scores goes for the innovative thinking for applying the patent, not the patent content:yum:
What a bout E bike or E scooters. Do we really think they would be as developed, cheap and widely used if there would be patents on the basic idea hindering the competition ?
The good thing with this patent is that it appears that adding a move-able surfaces for control is voiding it…Can not guarantee but so it looks. So technically speaking, adding some kind of movable surface for control makes it old existing design. Probably the control can also be made inactive …
Same goes for using a combustion engine i think…Shit…someone need to quickly apply for a patent for this …
OK I agree. I’m surprised Lift was able to get a patent if there was prior art in 1993. Is the 2013 Langelelaan patent the one that is being used by Lift? It sounds like this is a question of a patent being wrongfully issued.
I also think that this is close enough to being an “obvious” invention that it shouldn’t be patentable.
Lift references the Langelelaan patent on their website.
There is more of a discussion around this on other forums, I know that Fliteboard even commented on the one and have forged ahead regardless of what Lift claims. They believe their design differs enough.
I can’t see how anyone can go after a plug and play kit though. that would fall way too far outside of any of the patents!
LIFT FOILS ARE STIFLING CREATIVELY AND TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCEMENT!
They’ve even attempted to Trademark “EFOIL”
A generic term fir any electric foil!
It was first coined by The Great Don Montague many years ago,
If Lift are spending money on Attorneys for every alleged IP Infringement, domestic one off’s and commercial applications. Based on very loose terms such as the one above, the placement of a component, namely an ESC in a specific location,
Above the mast, if I’ve read it right.
Then we should all get together and challenge ALL their flimsy patents, those of a hint of subjective or generic terms.
That would have them scrambling for the attorneys the effect would significantly impact resources for such a huge volume of challenges,
one needn’t be to concerned I guess,
They have concerns of far greater importance to worry about!
When you hear only positive rumblings around the globe of FLITEBOARD’s superior performance, ease of use, reliability, build quality and design aspects, they all far surpasses any comparable aspect of LIFTFOIL !
I mean look at them side by side and you see the poor cousin
They have reason for concern Next they’ll attempt to patent the height a board rides above the water, and we’ll all be banned from water
If someone actually goes to court with them lift will lose. A patent is for something that’s not common knowledge. a motor on a mast with a battery wont hold up. On the other hand vefoils safety mechanism would mots likely standup in court if someone took the same idea and used the same mechanism to accomplish it. Has anyone found LIFTS actual patent? it would be interesting to see what they actually put a patent on.
“In patent prosecution, an examiner often mentions the term “common knowledge” when evaluating a step forward in an invention, as one cannot patent common knowledge . Common knowledge in the IP sense is generally a fact known or ought to be known to one skilled in the art and can be applied by such a person to solve specific technical problems.”
If anyone else is interested in looking at their patents they are filed under the cooperation MHL Custom, INC.
There is no way in hell those would standup in court.
I do not see anything in the patent that can win in the court. It just sets a higher bar for entering the market. Hydrofoil, electric hydrofoil has been out there for a very long time. Any patent attorney can massage similar design to make it approved for slightly different design. It is like if apple patents touch cell phone or microsoft patents operating systems as general
I had similar thoughts. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates butted heads back then but look at what is present today.
Heck , the Market for an E-foil is so small the patent beef is not worthed.
Flying Rodeo could surpass Lift in sales with price structuring and diverse geo marketing.
Problem with all of them flite board,Flying rodeo… is they are not manufacturing experts, the cannot even handle the low demands of these days. The way they have designed their product requires lots of labor. It gonna be like drone market which US and open source community were leading the era and dji came with full access to China supply chain and manufacturing resources and killed almost all competitors
Other issues is US and EU regulations and compliances amd I bet none of them have fcc or ul, this is a big barrier and I bet thats why we dont see them in REI stores yet. It needs lots of expedites and capital
