# Reisenauer Super Chief vs Chief
**URL:** https://foil.zone/t/reisenauer-super-chief-vs-chief/2174
**Category:** Propulsion System (Motor, Gears)
**Created:** [July 18, 2018, 5:51am UTC](https://foil.zone/t/reisenauer-super-chief-vs-chief/2174 "2018-07-18T05:51:24Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@philgib](https://foil.zone/u/philgib)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2018, 5:51am UTC](https://foil.zone/t/reisenauer-super-chief-vs-chief/2174/1 "2018-07-18T05:51:24Z")
Reisenauer Super chief is 100 bucks cheaper than the Chief
Still rated at 50 000 RPM / 3000 watts, 5 mm pinion OK
Has anyone tried it yet ?
> **[Reisenauer Super Chief 6:1Planetengetriebe rund](https://www.reisenauer.de/artikeldetails.php?aid=1628)**
>
> Reisenauer Präzisionsantriebe,Reisenauer Getriebe, Planetengetriebe, Micro Edition,Super Chief, Motor Chief,Spinner,Klemmmittelstück,Brushlessmotor,Lipo Akku,Brushless Regler,CFK Propeller,Holzluftschrauben,Luftschraube,RS E...
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### Author:  [@Fetteperson](https://foil.zone/u/Fetteperson)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2018, 8:12am UTC](https://foil.zone/t/reisenauer-super-chief-vs-chief/2174/2 "2018-07-18T08:12:29Z")
hi, i have not tried it yet, but honestly I don’t trust does numbers at all. Neugart is a top gear manufacturer and they only have them rated at 20’000rpm. Some people do use it, but in my opinion the neugart gearboxes are better quality. I also wrote them an e-mail, but they never reached back to me…
And also think about that the neugart gearboxes are meant for mechanical purposes for 20’000h+
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### Author:  [@Jezza](https://foil.zone/u/Jezza)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2018, 9:02am UTC](https://foil.zone/t/reisenauer-super-chief-vs-chief/2174/3 "2018-07-18T09:02:08Z")
Reisenauer are using proper bearings inside each gear, therefore they can handle much higher RPM with lower heat.
My Neugart looked like it was using a bushing and grease instead of a bearing. That would mean lower RPM and more heat.
I have seen a video where a Reisenauer was pushed to ±11KW and survived, so it can clearly handle some heavy use.
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### Author:  [@theone](https://foil.zone/u/theone)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2018, 9:11am UTC](https://foil.zone/t/reisenauer-super-chief-vs-chief/2174/4 "2018-07-18T09:11:10Z")
@Jezza Can you show a link to the Video ?
Thanks
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### Author:  [@Jezza](https://foil.zone/u/Jezza)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2018, 9:20am UTC](https://foil.zone/t/reisenauer-super-chief-vs-chief/2174/5 "2018-07-18T09:20:36Z")
These guys had the following config:
Motor: SSS 56104/790KV / 9D
ESC: Swordfish Pro+ 300 A 15s
Planetary Gear: Reisenauer 5:1 (guessing motor chief)
Battery: Samsung 18650 30Q 12s18p, 44.4 V, 54 Ah (2.4 kWh), BMS (charging only)
Propeller: Cleaver 3 blade, diameter: 110 mm, pitch: 143 mm, material: steel
Onboard Electronics:
DIY Control board: Teensy 3.2, DC-DC converter, SD card logger, led controller, receiver 2.4 Ghz NRF24L01+, GPS etc.
DIY Power board: Atmega32u4, Nfets as ‘kill switch’, temperature sensors, hall effect current sensor, voltage measuring, connected to control board.
DIY Handcontroller: Teensy 3.2, hall effect thumb throttle, transmitter 2.4 Ghz NRF24L01+.
Their performance figures were as follows:
Max Power: 9.8 kW (205 A @ 46.7 V)
Max Speed: ca. 44 km/h (probably higher as max throttle was never applied for a longer time than 2s)
Max RPM (prop) : 6800 rpm
Planning speed: ca. 20-25 km/h
Power @ planning speed: ca. 3.2 kW
So the Reisenauer is clearly up to the task of the efoils! Can you imagine how fast and efoil with a pod like this would go!
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### Author:  [@philgib](https://foil.zone/u/philgib)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2018, 9:28am UTC](https://foil.zone/t/reisenauer-super-chief-vs-chief/2174/6 "2018-07-18T09:28:34Z")
Thank you for your comments.
If this is like when I was building drones, it pays to invest in quality (I wasted so much money in drones on trying to purchase el cheapo’ parts again and again)
It looks like a few of us here have already destroyed their Neugart, while I did not find anyone with a problem on the Reisenauer (I am not saying it won’t happen 🙂 )
My question here is : is anyone using the Reisenauer Super chief which is cheaper than Neugart and Reisenauer Chief, and still seems to have good specs ?
There seems to be various models, with 3 and 4 gear wheels. If one has absolutely to go for 4-gear-wheel then no choice, it looks like one can only go for the Chief…
Unless our guru PMSR finds a new reduction-free system 😉
Thank you
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### Author:  [@Jezza](https://foil.zone/u/Jezza)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2018, 10:02am UTC](https://foil.zone/t/reisenauer-super-chief-vs-chief/2174/7 "2018-07-18T10:02:51Z")
I don’t think anyone has used the super chief yet. I think it would be valuable for someone to try it though! You could run the foil within the specs of the gear.
I also think you could use the 3 gear version.
I have run a reduction free setup, but ran the motor out of spec (12S when motor was rated for 10S). It’s completely possible with the correct cooling!
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### Author:  [@Flo](https://foil.zone/u/Flo)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2018, 11:29am UTC](https://foil.zone/t/reisenauer-super-chief-vs-chief/2174/8 "2018-07-18T11:29:14Z")
Would you mind sharing more details on your redutcion free setup? I’m still exploring how a jet drive could reduce build complexity.
And for @philgib: [My thin pod build (45mm) - Builds - FOIL.zone](http://efoil.builders/t/my-thin-pod-build-45mm/1416?u=flo) he says he uses the chief (without super).
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### Author:  [@Alexandre](https://foil.zone/u/Alexandre)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2018, 11:36am UTC](https://foil.zone/t/reisenauer-super-chief-vs-chief/2174/9 "2018-07-18T11:36:38Z")
I would pay the 100€ more for the chief😉 The super chief might do the job, but i am more worried about the size of the motor pignon, don’t Forget it is glued!
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### Author:  [@Giga](https://foil.zone/u/Giga)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2018, 11:38am UTC](https://foil.zone/t/reisenauer-super-chief-vs-chief/2174/10 "2018-07-18T11:38:18Z")
> [@philgib](#):
>
> It looks like a few of us here have already destroyed their Neugart, while I did not find anyone with a problem on the Reisenauer (I am not saying it won’t happen 🙂 )
Yeah, but most likely because of the axial bearing design. The reisenauer gearboxes are made for direct mount to a propeller, so they are made to hold axial loads (ensured by bearing). The neugarts are made for industry application where you most likely use it for servo like operation ( without axial loads).
The design by PM does not ensure unloading the axis from axial forces by the axial bearing (over determinated/hyperstatic). So most likely the axial load kills the bearing inside the gearbox, then gears are not aligend parallel any more and thats what kills your gearbox in the end…
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### Author:  [@Giga](https://foil.zone/u/Giga)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2018, 11:41am UTC](https://foil.zone/t/reisenauer-super-chief-vs-chief/2174/11 "2018-07-18T11:41:23Z")
> [@Jezza](#):
>
> Reisenauer are using proper bearings inside each gear, therefore they can handle much higher RPM with lower heat.
>
> My Neugart looked like it was using a bushing and grease instead of a bearing. That would mean lower RPM and more heat.
My PLE40 has open neadle bearings around the planets…so I guess same design.
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### Author:  [@Alexandre](https://foil.zone/u/Alexandre)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2018, 12:18pm UTC](https://foil.zone/t/reisenauer-super-chief-vs-chief/2174/12 "2018-07-18T12:18:00Z")
Needle bearing for super chief
Double angular bearing for chief
For the chief : the bearing hold the shaft and plate with the gears, all made of titanium, i haven’t seen any bearing for the gears , just play and grease
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### Author:  [@SoEFoil](https://foil.zone/u/SoEFoil)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2018, 1:34pm UTC](https://foil.zone/t/reisenauer-super-chief-vs-chief/2174/13 "2018-07-18T13:34:04Z")
What a nice post this is with focused questions and answers. The know-how is spreading around.
> [@Jezza](#):
>
> Can you imagine how fast and efoil with a pod like this would go!
But not with any front wing. The Takuma-like HF with huge front wing are perfect for learning. Passed 20+ knots, the front wing and mast develop a huge drag that make the foil saturate in speed (25 knots). With speed building arise the safety issue: the Eldorido guys (48kmph efoil) prefer to use a front leash to avoid a soar neck after the session.
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### Author:  [@Jezza](https://foil.zone/u/Jezza)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2018, 3:57pm UTC](https://foil.zone/t/reisenauer-super-chief-vs-chief/2174/14 "2018-07-18T15:57:15Z")
Both the super and motor chief have:
- Planetary gears with needle bearings
- Output double row angular contact ball bearings
> **[Reisenauer Super Chief 5:1Planetengetriebe rund](https://www.reisenauer.de/artikeldetails.php?aid=1349)**
>
> Reisenauer Präzisionsantriebe,Reisenauer Getriebe, Planetengetriebe, Micro Edition,Super Chief, Motor Chief,Spinner,Klemmmittelstück,Brushlessmotor,Lipo Akku,Brushless Regler,CFK Propeller,Holzluftschrauben,Luftschraube,RS E...
[https://www.reisenauer.de/artikeldetails.php5?aid=1754](https://www.reisenauer.de/artikeldetails.php5?aid=1754)
It just comes down to the power differences.
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### Author:  [@Alexandre](https://foil.zone/u/Alexandre)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2018, 5:38pm UTC](https://foil.zone/t/reisenauer-super-chief-vs-chief/2174/15 "2018-07-18T17:38:04Z")
Correct! Sorry at the time i bought mine last year , specifications were not as long , the bearing size and frame mount are the main difference
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### Author:  [@philgib](https://foil.zone/u/philgib)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2018, 5:42pm UTC](https://foil.zone/t/reisenauer-super-chief-vs-chief/2174/16 "2018-07-18T17:42:08Z")
… I guess the 4-gear-wheels instead of 3-gear-wheels is a huge plus, even powering it within the specs ? Or is that just not necessary for our use ?
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### Author:  [@Jezza](https://foil.zone/u/Jezza)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2018, 8:12am UTC](https://foil.zone/t/reisenauer-super-chief-vs-chief/2174/17 "2018-07-19T08:12:10Z")
The 4 wheel will put less force on the gears as it is more evenly distributed. Whether it is necessary or not, I don’t know. I think one could get by with the 3 gear version…
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### Author:  [@Silvio](https://foil.zone/u/Silvio)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2018, 9:57am UTC](https://foil.zone/t/reisenauer-super-chief-vs-chief/2174/18 "2018-07-19T09:57:14Z")
The 4-gear-wheels might be more robust but less efficient (more friction)
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### Author:  [@Jezza](https://foil.zone/u/Jezza)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2018, 11:24am UTC](https://foil.zone/t/reisenauer-super-chief-vs-chief/2174/19 "2018-07-19T11:24:57Z")
Aren’t you using the 4-wheel gear?
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### Author:  [@Silvio](https://foil.zone/u/Silvio)
#### Post date: [July 19, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://foil.zone/t/reisenauer-super-chief-vs-chief/2174/20 "2018-07-19T15:49:22Z")
No, I use a 3-wheel one.
I think it is robust enough for my setup.
Weakness is more between pinon and motor shaft (glued)
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