12s Vs 18s setup

Hey guys, I noticed that the typical 80100 motor for direct drive outrunner setup is made to operate up to 18s. I wonder why most of you guys use it with a 12s batterie.
Here is what I think about it. But feel free to correct me.
The kv rating defines the revolution of the motor per Volt. That means an 18s setup at full throttle spins faster then an 12s setup and therefore reaches a higher top speed. The ESC manages the Voltage going to the motor, not the current. When you are planing with both setups at the same speed, your motor gets the same voltage from the ESC. With the rule I=U/R Your batterielife and runtime will be the same. Even though the 18s setup contains 3 6s batteries and the 12s setup contains only 2 6s batteries.
In conclusion the only benefit from an 18s setup is a higher top speed. And you are using a 12s setup because the speed is enough for going fast and you don’t aim for the highest speed possible ??

right but:

  • 18s in the water may not be safe for your heart
  • you can spin a propeller in water at high rpm without cavitation at some point
  • you increase voltage ok but you need to decrease the kv of the motor in order to stay in a area of the proper use of the propeller, and the lower the kv of the motor the finner the wire will be so the less amp it can take before burning, it is a win/loose
  • when you go fast on efoil and you fall, your neck hurts a couple of days :wink:

last year i used 8s, this year 12s just to lower the amp (and heat ), the speed is the same , just depends on kv and propeller pitch

So what is more powerful ?
Faster spinning but smaller prop (18s)
Slower spinning but bigger prop (12s)
Bigger prop is more efficient…

My plan was to use the standard 80100 motor with 80kv. And I want to use it for foiling but also for a “regular” surfboard. Like a jetboard but with a prop. My initial thought was: Why is everyone using it with a 12s batterie? Shouldn’t be an 18s setup more powerful?
And by the way, do you think a single 80100 Motor ist powerful enough to get me planing on the water without a foil (in surfboard configuration). I’m a pretty small guy, around 65 kg.

Maybe because it’s hard to find a affordable ESC that can handle 18s :sunglasses:

You’re gonna need a lot more power than foiling - and foiling makes you addicted :innocent:

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There are a few ones from FLIER. Rated up to 24s and 200A I think. Cost around 200€. Not so much more then one for 12s. I can share them if you want :slight_smile:

And jup, I know I need a lot more power to ride foilless. I just have absolutely not reference. So I have no Idea whether the 80100 motor is capable of getting me planing on a foilless board :sweat_smile:

Depending on what prop you use, you’ll need something that’s capable of up to 10kw of power to get you to a really decent speed. The 65161 195kv motor from flipsky paired with a prop of around 110mm should do a really good job I think. Then a ESC capable of 14S and 200-300A would work well.

I don’t trust the chinese values - take half and maybe it’s true :hot_face:

Depends on how well the board glides - so size and shape matters - with 65kg it’s easier - and last but not least how fast you like to run :surfing_man:

why exactly this motor? According to the specs it can deliver up to 6000W in comparison to the 80100 from APS which delivers up to 7000W.
I think the 65161 flipsky motor is also available in 100kv. Why would you choose the 195kv version?

My concern is that the 80100 motor is not capable of getting me planing on the water without a foil. Thats why I thought mybe an 18s setup with the same motor would be the solution :sweat_smile:
But now I am not sure anymore if thats the right attempt of getting more power…

Oh man, I thought FLIER is a good choice for ESCs:sweat_smile:

That’s just Flipsky being lazy with spec sheets. The motor is actually rated at 8100W of power for the 195kv. The motor will be able to get you on the plane and its waterproof so there’s less effort when fitting it to the board.

My c80100 with 500a flier esc can take 10kw. No idea for how long but it should work for a surfboard without foil

It should get you planning all right, in fact, even with the foil, we need to get planning before flying and at lower speed, the foil doesn’t help much.
What will make the most difference is the board: you can paddle a longboard to a pretty good speed with your arms, not so much with a shortboard.
If you plan on building the surfboard from scratch, may be aim at building one that can do both: foil and surf.

If you have a lot of confidence in keeping everything waterproof and insulated, you can try 18S, it’ll lower the current, which might not be a bad thing as with a surf configuration it’ll stay high, not drop as soon as you start flying.
But make sure your 80kv is really 80… mine was bought as a 80, but is more like a 100…
and if you go for 18s, may be a 50kv is more suitable…

The board will definitely be a compromise for surfing and foiling. And recently I saw a video from @PowerGlider. Seems like he is surfing alright and he is using an even smaller motor. I’ll give it a try, if it’s not working it will simply be used for foiling only. Or maybe dual 80100 motors with plenty of power in the future :smirk:…
My plan is to try the setup on an old windsurfing board first and later I will build a custom board.
Why is it so important to keep everything well insulated? Will bulletconnectors at the motor wires submerged in water work?
I mean: short motor wires connected to longer wires (connectors not waterproofend) going up the mast and into the electronics box.
That way it would be really easy to unplug and remove the motor from the motormount

It may work, if there is no leak for the electricity to form a loop, otherwise you will get shocked. 18S might kill you, it is not safe in water. 12S hurts already. I would not build something with more than 12S. And i make sure, the battery and ESC box are completely watertight and use watertight cables to go to the motor. Inside the motor and it connections there may be some very small leakage, but nowhere else, so there is no loop the current can go. If you use unprotected plugs beneath each other it will corrode.
Why do you want to remove the motor from its mount? Thats lot of work with sensitive leads going into the motor. Get an additional mast, thats what i am going to do. The motor and leads stay with the mast, they are one unit.

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I’m sorry, I don’t understand your concept. How will you be able to convert between surf and foil configuration when your motor stays attached to one mast?
If I want to foil, the motor has to be attached to the mast of the foil.
If I want to surf the motor has to be attached to a different mount. Like what you did with the surfboardfin.
I thought I could unbolt the motor from the mount, then disconnect the motor leads from the leads going up the mast. Remove the mast. Put on the other mount. And then reattach the motor.
Bulletconnectors wouldn’t be waterproof but that way it would be very simple to remove the motor from the mast. Or maybe I could make completely waterproof connectors?!
Whatever. I didn’t knew that the the 3 phased motor leads are dangerous. I thought only the connection between batterie and ESC is dangerous
Or did I get it wrong? Please correct me @PowerGlider

you can either make some waterproof connectors like that for example:Low cost and easy waterproof connectors - Electronics (ESC, remote, batteries) - FOIL.zone
or you can use bullet connectors and wrap them with some good electrical tape, or use some adhesive lined shrink tubing…shrink tubing is a bit more painful to remove though…

Oh wow that idea is genius :sweat_smile: so simple but effective. Exactly what was missing​:ok_hand:
Thanks @Mat for this note

okok, my swapping is meant between windsurffoiling and efoiling. For my esurf i already have a working setup (with 6384), so no need to swap the motorprop between mast and fin.
I find it very hard to construct your concept, because one needs rather small and watertight connectors for the motor, because the space is limited by the mounting screws.
One more tipp: Do not make the fin too short, a distance between prop and board is needed to prevent air being sucked in which decreases thrust immediately.

Ok now I get it. So you only have the esurf setup. And for an efoil you would use a second motor.
Can you tell me what your speed on the esurf usually is? Is it enough for proper planing on the water? And how is the handling?
And thanks for the advice with the sucked in air. Wouldn’t have thought about that :sweat_smile:
I know my plan to build a convertible board for surfing and foiling is complicated but I will inform you when it’s working :ok_hand: