Can an efoil battery catch on fire by itself?

This would probably be ok, and certainly wise. When the cells burn they can be up to 500’C, so just make sure all materials are insulators and won’t ignite @ 500’C. This means steel and fibreglass or something similar. Also, the state of charge makes all the difference; if you store, discharge to <50% to reduce severity of fire.

Torque jetboards ship their batteries in a steel box, with a fibreglass blanket. They have done testing with faulty batteries, starting fires in their box and it supresses the fire.

Different application but a similar concern–two Tesla modules that I put into the frame of the 1978 GMC Motor Home I’m restomodding. Made a welded steel box 1/4" thick, and lined it with Rockwool. that whole fiery death thing seems unpleasant. I’d show a picture but apparently, I have to wait to be blessed.

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Yes and no, current battery technology makes them almost always safe to use, given they are maintained, used and handled properly.
Bad battery packs in most cases show warning signs for a while, long before they “spontaneously lit on fire”.
Before and after a session, run checks for water leakage, corrosion signs, BMS health, loose wires, avoid low voltage/unbalanced cells etc. and you will be good.

I´ve read the story about that battery… But there are some really strange things this guy is posting.

  1. He states that battery was leaking water after he droped it in water!
    2 he writes that he drained 2 cups of water out of the battery… But this battery case is closed and you cant drain water out of it, so I can only assume the battery case had a crack or something like this?? I all of you knows that you shouldnt drop Li-Ion batteries into water, regardless if its waterproof Lift, Flite, Takuma or Waydoo or DIY battery... Second if you "drained" 2 coffee cups of water out of it, you shure dont use it anymore and store it at a safe secure place (even if you know that normally water will discharge the battery and just kill it in a “safe way”)
  2. if you don`t know what to do, you ask your dealer or write the manufacturer and ask what to do or how to proceed.
  3. The fire in his garage took place 1 week after he drained water out of it…?? (
  4. Newspaper reports stated, source of fire is unclear but first signs show it could be the Tesla car??? Later he himself post that he thinks it was battery…

Sorry all my Lipo and LiIon batteries that soaked water all died peacefull. They discharged without any signs of heating or expansion below the 2.6V and died…
So to make it clear I dont wanna say it cant be, but I just don`t believe this story as stated, as it does not make sense happening in this manner!
But those of you who did a battery pack yourself, will understand what I mean;-)
And yes Lipo batteries are different, and while charging those I store them as well in safe place with the new product “pyro-bubbles” on top of it… Great stuff…
Check it out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ma3eHL79eUg

You have all of the facts wrong.

  1. He never dropped the battery in water, he said it started taking on water immediately during his first use.
  2. He did contact Waydoo and tell him the battery was full of water.
  3. Waydoo told him to keep charging and using the battery.
  4. He already addressed the newspaper and said they went after a sensational story without talking to him
  5. Several days later he confirmed the battery was the source of the fire

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@FoilFiesta dont know what your interest is in this whole story. But really, I cant believe that he told waydoo service people that his battery was full of water!!! and they told him to charge it !. Each idiot and he himself should know that you dont charge Li-Ion batteries if they have been wet! Sorry I dont believe that. Either he did not clearly tell waydoo the problem or they did not understand it correctly…!
The story is just to curious. And where is this battery now? I had several burned batteries… I know how it looks like, but in no case it burned completely and disappeared :rofl: unbelievable

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Waydoo has responded several times, they never denied that they told him to charge the battery. If the company who designed the battery says it’s safe to charge, why wouldn’t he listen to them? As far as he knows the battery components could be inside another waterproof box that’s still sealed despite the outer case being compromised.

So you are Mr. Hill or its your friend or how do you know all this details?... on FB you never showed facts nor photos...so for me it stays a story... Actually I dont care if true or not or if the tesla car caused fire as reported by the fire brigade…however I dont like people talk bullshit about Li-Ion batteries, use them all over their cellphones, e-bikes, efoils, cars and then telling other to be afraid of them...or telling bullshit as they were submerged and after 1 week started to burn without any outside force on them....and then disappeared into gas...nothing left...Sorry, believe what you want, I dont think it happened this way…
And this is a forum for DIY… so a lot of guys with really good knowledge about Li-Ion batteries and building them… Don`t think that you can convince them that it happened exactly like this…and shows me you never had a wet Li-Ion battery so far… :wink:

All of the info was posted by the owner. Why did you claim you’d read his story when it’s clear that you didn’t and you have no idea what you’re talking about?

Maybe you should inform yourself before posting all these speculative comments and wild accusations.

Found the post I was referring to:

As i said I had several DIY Li-Ion batteries failures in water… all of those died peacefully…I even dispose Li-Ion batteries in salt water if I want to completely discharge them for safe disposal…And I had battery fires whith short cuts of batteries too. I know how this looks like and what is happening… Thats why I dont believe this story happened the way he tells it... Its different to the newspaper story too… so maybe in his situation I would tell the same to get someone responsible for the loss…
You start to blame me for wild accusations telling me I know nothing…maybe you should ask yourself why you insist that hard telling everyone his story…I dont want to argue with you who is wrong or wright...just believe whatever you want... its not my case and I have no time to argue with you about this stuff… Maybe you should take a LiIon Cell and test yourself, Put in in water, let it settle for one week in a safe steel storage or with “pyro bubbles” and then wait when it will start burning or exploding in way that nothing is left of it :hugs:
So I´m out of this discussion now, so you can try to sell this story to the other DIY guys here… Most of them work with LiIon batteries and understand how handle those…

This video doesn’t demonstrate the product possibilities.
The video of Extover, the competitor, is a step up. It shows their 'bubble" material can protect the packing carton containing a burning battery :star_struck:

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Looks nice. I like this pyro bubbles…tested shortcuts on Lipo`s with those myself. And I always charge them just putting a big bag of those pyro bubbles on top, then I feel safe and sleep well…
However Li-Ion batteries with bms are much safer. I trust those without the pyro bubbles :sweat_smile:

For 30L, Pyrobubbles 200€, Extover 50€ (mostly in EU I think)
Many people here don’t trust Li-Ion batteries even with BMS (especially since Wardy’s van story). Those granules are a must have.

Ok maybe I should think about those Extover, quite a difference in price…looks as if they are very similar to pyro bubbles…Thanks for the hint :call_me_hand:

There is no such a thing like dying of li ion battery to begin with! to even be a peaceful or not! What dying means? It has zero technical or engineering value. Li-ion can catch on fire and for sure salt water CAN cause corrosion over time to lead to internal or external short then thermal runaway and we all know the rest of the story! If you got lucky that is your story to tell. These capacities and number of cells we are dealing here are no joke! There is an absolute chance average customers will drop or expose the pack to salt water! That is why every single pack sold in US needs to meet some curtain certifications otherwise when it gets in to legality company will lose it in first session! Waydoo might go away since they are not US based but it will cost them US market at some point.

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that was not my point! I said I had LiIon shortcuts as well… But it never happened that they burned completely or disappeared… like in the story above…furthermore different story from fireman and No official authorities investigated and said yes it was this battery as he be believes…That still makes the story not making sense…
But your shure you are right in that point, always take care with Li-Ion batteries…and I just wanted to say that most of the guys here will know, that if they drop their battery in water and afterwards “drain 2 cups of water out of it” this battery is unsafe… It has to be stored on a safe place and definately do not charge it until you know whats going on inside…

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An accident that comes at just the right time for the main players in the market, sowing doubt among potential buyers.
Who’s to blame ? Unskilled customer or technical support ?
First Waydoo IP67 battery to suffer this sad fate. The evidences have been destroyed in the fire, could this be reproduced in a lab ? Did this battery fall to the ground ?

image

I kinda believe in the possibility of a non technical support member giving advice to charge it,language barrier, lack of proper protocols and training in chaotic startup company. Instead they have to have a proper instructions in the manual and by support team to safely dispose leaked or damaged pack

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I just want to make one point; it’s a numbers game. You can’t stop a fire starting. But you can design to manage it.

So the rate of failure in Korean cells is ~1 in 5,000,000. Typical pack has168 cells, means you get a trigger cell every 30,000 packs.

Rate of leaks in packs from real use ~1 in 1,00 perhaps? Probably higher. Salt water is known to trigger fires.

Rate of component failure in protection circuits? 1 in 100,000 circuit boards. Then they have no protection in charge, discharge, etc.

The list goes on, and you can add all these up to see that it’s going to be a portion of eFoils, eJets, eWhatever’s each year that have potential to catch fire.

What is really important is how the system is designed to deal with, detect, contain and stop a fire.

That’s the real question. Is that Battery design to survive an inevitable trigger cell fire? I don’t know of a single battery that has an infallible seal? Or redundant seals.

I haven’t seen one that has a way to deal with the pyro-venting you get when a cell decides to become a firework. Or features to stop sideways propagation of the fire.

I haven’t seen material selection to keep the seals intact when hot in the sun, or to deal with the heat from failure and not add more fuel to the fire.

All the batteries I’ve seen are really wild-west, done quick. Its a statistical certainty that a bad fire happens in a bad place.