There’s no beauty in making new meccas. There’s beauty in have a session with a friend or 2, not 50 other people.
The barrier to entry for efoils and foil assists has always been the price or DIY skills. If that is lowered there will be a bunch of muppets clogging up lineups and forcing both to be moved into PWC craft rules which EVERYONE wants to avoid.
I’m sure they want your feedback because they don’t actually know how to design these products in the first instance.
Best of luck with that
I don’t even think Foil Drive has fulfilled 1000 orders.
Then there are all the other players looking at foil assist like Gong etc.
Lastly, if you wanted a cheap hobby/sport, foiling ain’t it. While it can be started at a lower price point, the second you ride newer gear thats better than your older gear you going to want to upgrade and then you are in for major spending across every element.
No beauty in new meccas, i disagree.
Riding 2 friends sounds good, 50 people, too many, agreed. Foiling enable new empty spots. Barrier to entry will go down whether you try to stop it or not. Muppets might clog lineups, early adoption allows for more freedom prior to new rules. Foils enable empty spots, so i wont be clogging the line up especially with a assist. I surfed for yesrs, i am used to competitive line ups anyways even though my pocket is now 1000x+ larger and there is no need to sit with the caterpillars.
Suppliers want feedback IMO.
Maybe foil drive has not sold like you said, maybe its the price from overpoweredness. I disagree, foiling is cheap and affordable now, you have to look for great prices like i am doing, i have not encountered major spending by selling old foils for more than i bought them for, upgrading slowly, finding the best price, negotiating, thinking outside the box, and asking questions. If i find a foil assist that has a high price to value ratio, i will share it but michobby is not it yet although a few suppliers are super close. I will test it, if it shreds or if it is crap, i will demonstrate it, we will see. I always think in imaginative ideals and i am always joyfully hopeful.
No it won’t. It hasn’t for efoils. The budget are still at 6K and those companies all go bankrupt eventually. The high price ones are even higher than when they launched.
The only barrier to entry that comes down is the second hand market, but then you pay a lot without warranty which many people want to avoid.
Of course they do, thats how they gain market share and improve products. But still doesn’t mean they are going to design fit for purpose products. Maytech is a prime example of that. They’ve had 5 years of feedback and still their offerings are below par.
I disagree, i have seen price drop by 10x on efoils. This product category depreciates and reachs greater scale which inevitably reduces price.
They have supply they need to sell, they are incentivised to repackage it so it does sell, they don’t always know what the demand will be but consumer feedback can help them. Some of the suppliers are being very communicative and are very grateful to hear new ideas and perspectives. years of development have gotten us to a point where plug and play foil assist for $1k seems doable otherwise I wouldn’t have posted, i have been waiting all along until 12 months ago, for foil prices to drop and now I wait for foil assist kits to be optimized. If the end result of this thread is that it is not currently possible, I am ok with just waiting another x number of years. At the rate we are going it seems like I am only months away from testing it. This is always how new tech happens, it is expensive and only a few buy it, eventually they will make a product for the masses but that is price dependent. I broke down the minimum effective wattage needed above, if a kit is overpowered it will be overpriced. If one supplier sells all parts needed but package it incorrectly, it won’t sell. I am hoping they rearrange their inventory and sales sheet to meet what i believe to be the market demand in this field. I just want to have fun and overpaying kills the joy. I wonder, what is the minimum effective product? In the distant future, i think we will be amazed at how small a motor we can use, at this time 600W seems good. I am sure more power is desirable, but having a loss leader can get people into the ecosystem. I might be delusional about what is possible right now, but if it is possible it is eventually inevitable IMO.
10x? So Lift introduced the first at $12000, So where’s the $1200 complete commercial efoil?
You clearly don’t know what you talking about.
No they don’t. They have a product they want to sell and at this stage will make limited numbers until they receive a large order. I know this because I have dealt with all the motor manufacturers that make efoil and assist motors.
To find how prices have dropped on efoils you have to search the broad spectrum of competition that has surfaces, I was not talking about subjecting yourself to a monopoly by only searching one brand name.
You are right that most suppliers are not capable of adapting, however you are directly contradicting the few who have expressed great interest, see potential, and appreciate dialogue.
I’ve dealt with michobby/maytech and can tell you they’d sell you a bag of socks and call it an efoil of they can. Then when you try send it back they’ll just say no and won’t refund you…
Learn to use the forum search and you’ll find examples…
I also like DIY. If you have time, that’s also good, you can make the products you like, but you don’t have much time, you can choose us to provide you with a more suitable finished product, maybe cheaper than your cost.
Yea i am interested in a finished product that is around $1k or a product with complete diy tutorial videos, michobby did not have complete instructions, what product do you have and how much is it? If the price is above $1k, how much wattage does it have and can you make a kit that has a max power of 600W to reduce the price?
Based off the community guidelines, " When you see bad behavior, don’t reply. It encourages the bad behavior by acknowledging it, consumes your energy, and wastes everyone’s time. Just flag it ."
Really, this is so far from reality. No efoil has dropped by even a factor of 2.
The laws of physiscs won’t change to make way for your dreams either:
the numbers you qoute for power consumption are imaginary, 1000W to get on foil? it takes about 3kW on the efoils here. If you add an assist to a pumpfoil and have an optimised board for starting then numbers can go just a bit lower but this is not what people want, they want to be able to get up with their existing gear - and ride a fun foil.
Yea efoils have dropped a lot it just matters where and what you buy to get those prices.
Yes 1000W is confirmed by testing and 600W once on foil. Yes this is foil and board design dependent but who of us but the perfect foil the first time and board design has improved.
Humans can only produce and sustain peak forces of 1000W and sustain 400W, i dont know why everyone on here are such nay sayers.
“What people want” is a subjective interpretation, people dont want to spend money on overpriced underdeveloped products IMO.
If a person could produce 3kW they would be a superhero.
I have broken down potential cost savings by downsizing components for the minimum effective assistance and a $1k seems very doable.
There are several suppliers who see potential in hooking us up big time, i hope it works but its goong to take a few months.
The reason why people on here are naysayers is because they actually built efoils/ assists, logged data and know that you need more than 1000W to get on foil (unless using a 7ft DW board and a large foil) and that it takes more to an 400W to sustain.
Suggest you open your wallet and see for your self. You can’t arm chair engineer this stuff.
