So I was in Maui last Sunday and rolled up to Kanaha after just arriving from the airport. I was was a bit surprised to see Kai Lenny in the parking lot loading up his gear into a truck when I said hi and introduced myself. I asked what the conditions were and he said “epic” go for a really small wing (4m max) and I got a selfie with the guy. He was super cool and really made my day, very nice guy! Fast forward 10 minutes and I see Josh Ku walking towards the parking lot. I said "hey Josh, I’m so and so, and really like his content. He was super awkward and acting like I was bothering him. I felt awkward and just didn’t engage further. I was really put off by the guy and it made me feel like maybe I dont want to buy Foil Drive products. I mean, they obvoiusly spend so much money on influencers you would think they would be cool when you meet them. Not so with Josh. I recently came into some extra cash to spend on Foil Gear and I dont think I will spend it on Foil Drive products. They seem to be more of a Influencer company than a foil assist company. Time to finish my DIY assist build and say a big FU to Foil Drive!
lol, what do you expect? How would you feel when strangers constantly try to engage with you? They are also humans and like to have a session without being bothered by anyone. They have bad days and good days, same as you.
Also I do not get the connection between a products quality and influencer mood.
Not sure I follow your logic for not wanting to buy their products. When I see Fred Hope on the beach testing gear I dont walk up to him and want a selfie.
FD is a decent DIY platform - it solves a bunch of problems like having a reliable water tight battery compartment and signal handling. You can build your own batteries (not like lift efoils where you have a proprietary CAN protocol), you can buy maytech v3 remote from AE and pair it with the unit, you can print your own motor pods, you can buy inexpensive flipsky 6384 or 5085 motors, 3D print the connector and get in working with the unit. Prop blades are some of the best available. These are the reasons I got my basic kit, not because of influencers.
Dont let that Josh Ku dick put you off. You should still buy FD because Paul Martin the founder is a top dude!
Nobody needs influencers or idols. If you personally feel that a foil drive is something you’ll enjoy and that you’ll benefit from it, then buy one. I’m not interested in those people; I’m old enough to form my own opinion and make a decision. And that’s what you should do here, too. Less talking and thinking, more time on the water. That should motivate you! The best surfer out there is the one having the most fun.
This made me chuckle…
Foil Drive is a weird one. They offer a product and were first to market which means they have amassed a cult following and have the funds to throw at marketing and support. If you want a product that works at a rather high cost and decent support, then I’d say go for it. Their props work well, they aren’t anything special though. I designed a blade just as good and efficient with an online prop designer in 1 hour.
The Manta evo is more powerful, has better travel batteries, a less maintenance based motor and their team engage here. It could be argued they may be better than FD just don’t have the cult following.
Yeah, I mean I wasnt expecting a selfie from Josh and I dont even seek them out normally ,only got one with Kai to show my wife as she follows him on Insta.
It seems FD spend a lot of money on advertising and pay a bunch of pro riders to travel around promoting their gear instead of making their products better and more affordable. I mean, they are charging over $200 for the new mini pod which looks like a design I have seen here many times.
I reached out to FD to see if they can not include the regular mount and put in the mini pod as I wouldnt use it anyway and they said no, have to buy the “upgrade”. The mini pod looks like a rip off I have seen on this forum and they are charging $200 for some rubber and plastic.
The Manta Evo looks nice, has more power on paper. I might go that route if my diy assist doesnt work well. I only have to finish building my battery then I can start testing.
Hey Jezza … did you CNC the prop you designed or how did you peoduce it?
Rumor has it that mekanism is still in the parking lot and wants to tell his name to all the foilers leaving the airport.
Is there a model of the propeller you could share?
Fair enough, I suppose my actions were a bit fan boyish! Honestly, I wasnt planning on seeing any of these guys. Happen to pick up my rental car and head to Kanaha to check out the spot, saw Kai, and later Josh and I got excited. This isn’t normal, the Paddle Imua race had just ended so a bunch of pro’s were hanging around. I was only put off by Josh because Kai was really nice and offered some pointers on foiling there. Josh was probably a bit tired and didnt a appreciate some weird dude like me rolling up on him. I can reflect, not my finest moment!
Anyway, I still want to really like the FoilDrive brand but I cant see myself buying anything from them as they seem to keep stealing ideas from this forum. The mini pod is the perfect example of this, have seen the same design for years on here.
On one hand I can understand the “stealing” argument against FD of many on this forum. On the other hand, it is one thing to build something for yourself and it is a completely different thing building something in a way to make it available to the whole world. To get this working you have to still put a lot of work into product development and many other business related things. When you are the first one hitting a market with a product that has not been available before, you have completely different problems than those new brands entering a validated market right now. The first FD (the most obvious “copy”) was basically just a prototype and a test to find out if enough people would enjoy and buy such a thing. You do not want to burn a shit ton of money on product development to get this insight from business perspective. There are many examples of startups failing just because of this.
The other brands are also kind of “copies”. FD has validated a market and business model, so others do not have to anymore. Users have been attaching their FD to their waist before and now we have brands offering this product. When you enter a market with a product as competitor, you want to do something different than the biggest player on the market to not compete directly. So sure they are kind of different from FD. But still they are copies of the general concept and business model.
I do not think this is a bad thing. User-driven product and business development is a good thing and that’s how many products came to market. Just imagine a world with products no-one needs. There is a lot of them already and that’s because some businesses just do not know their users.
So basically one could say, thanks to FD we have market of Foil Assists we can choose from right now.
Edit:
And regarding the pricing of FD. Yes, they are steep and that’s a reason why I chose to build the assist myself. But in retrospective it would have been a lot cheaper to just buy that thing and earn some money in the time I have spent with developing and building it (and for record I have not developed it from the ground up myself, I also copied that whole thing). Even such a thing like the simple Pod is cheaper to buy. You need a 3D printer at first + many other tools (expensive) and you need to put in the time. I do not regret it though and I have learned a lot of stuff. But for some people this just might be a good argument to buy instead building it. Now that we see cheaper alternatives entering the market this argument becomes even more valid.
Yeah, man. It’s an airport, no telling how comfortable the flight was. I’d understand the complaints if Josh was unfriendly at the spot. In any case, making snap decisions about buying a device based on the actions of a brand ambassador seems a bit childish to me.
Saw the Foildash product the other day and got on the list. Not sure about the whole kickstarter thing though.
I totally agree with this topic and honestly understand all points of view.
DIY and commercial products are simply two completely different games.
The biggest advantage of DIY is that you can push performance much further. Our DIY systems have significantly more power than most commercial products because we can run them much closer to the limit. A commercial company simply can’t do that. Their systems have to be safe, reliable and almost bulletproof for thousands of different users.
And I have to give FoilDrive credit where it’s due. Their support is excellent, their marketing is outstanding, and they’ve probably done more than anyone else to establish foil assist as a real sport.
But…
One of the biggest mistakes a successful company can make is forgetting where it came from.
Foil Drive grew out of this very DIY community. They don’t owe the DIY community anything, but I do think it’s a mistake not to embrace it. The DIY scene moves incredibly fast because we can constantly experiment, test crazy ideas and learn from failures. Instead of trying to own the foil assist space, I’d see that community as a huge source of innovation.
I’m much more active on Instagram these days than on forums because of work an lack of time. Titus and I mainly post spontaneous videos of our DIY projects, and I’m pretty sure FoilDrive knows who we are. If you search #foildrive on Instagram, you’ll actually find a surprising number of DIY posts before you even get to Foil Drive itself. That alone shows that foil assist has become much bigger than any single company.
After more than three years of DIY, though, I have to admit something:
I’m getting tired.
Our systems work really well now, but DIY is a lot of work. And yes it suck more often now. There’s always maintenance, corrosion, waterproofing, connectors, ESCs, firmware updates and countless little things that need attention.
Now Titus and I are starting to travel across Europe for longer trips, even flying with our equipment. Waves and conditions getting bigger, foils smaller 
At that point, reliability, endurance and heavy-use durability become far more important than squeezing out another 10% of performance.
I’ve had the chance to test almost every commercial system except FoilDash. Unfortunately, there still isn’t one that I would personally buy today. Either they don’t have enough power, they’re too expensive, they’re too heavy, or they have design compromises that we, as the DIY community, have already learned don’t work particularly well in the long run.
Putting everything inside the board still seems like the most logical solution to me, and I’m honestly surprised that more manufacturers haven’t fully committed to that approach.
OMG, so I guess I’ll keep building DIY systems for another year or two. 
But I’m convinced that sooner or later someone will build a commercial foil assist system with the right balance of power, weight, reliability and price. The day that happens, I’ll happily retire my soldering iron.
Did you try it?
Not really sold by the concept yet.
1.6kg boardside is good, but not crazy good.
I bet they count the cable to the other weight.
More than 4kg for the body side is kinda heavy. And a significant part is gonna be the cable dangling around.
All in it’s going to be almost 2kg heavier than my setup, but less on the board.
It’s simple: if you put everything inside a board it’s always lightest, efficient and safest solution! Because:
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Board act as a housing (hatch 200-300g), drilled out foam safes weight anyway. Double waterproof protection easily done.
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No external waterproofed housing needed. No drag. No space issues. You can go from small to large batteries. You can use commercial drone batteries. ESC replacement possibility etc…
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No cable hazard. No leash in glassy conditions. Cable is about 1,5kg and if it’s cut you get in serious trouble (big waves with current, DW runs etc.)
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Battery weight position is flexible. You don’t feel it anymore when it’s directly in center of you body.
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Think different, if the ESC is only 250g and the hatch 250g just leave the battery outside, unplug the motor and go prone foiling.
Our overall weight is 11-13kg incl. 12s3p batterie. With the new solid state lipos we safe another 1kg.
I wouldn’t hold my breath… The reality is that foil drive set the price high. Therefore any other guys entering the market will use it as a baseline and then set their price just under it. Ro build up a cheaper unit it really needs to be simplistic in it’s approach and reduce component count to the maximum. It will need to be very well thought out.
This is tricky, if board manufacturers do this then they need to guarantee things are waterproof. The big brands are more than happy to use foil drives incremental approach as it guarantees trickle upgrades and larger board sales. Then there’s the question whether it’s better to put gear in from the top or the bottom…
Always the same. Business and politics doesn’t keeps the world turning. It’s always the curiosity of mankind. In the end it’s driven by these crazy people who thought out of the box and everybody laughed about 