Combined Resources for Foil Assist

Build, Repair & Mod
1

Hello all,

Is there a way we can combine all of the resources in 1 thread to make building a Faux Foil Drive easier for those of us that are not engineers? I see so many great ideas and builds here but sifting through all of the info can be challenging. There are some great under mount builds, top mount, inset etc… It would be cool to organize parts lists, CAD, 3D print files into 1 organized thread.

My idea is to make it so easy to build a foil assist that even if bad actor were to copy it it won’t matter because it would still be easier and cheaper to build your own.

I like what the team is doing at foil drive but lets face it…their products are out of reach for most of us. $5,000-$7000 is ridiculous!

I know I can research the info on here but it can be very intimidating. I have spent 30+ hours researching on this site and am no closer to completing a build. The info is just scattered and inconsistent across build threads. Why not combine the collective knowledge to make building these toys that much easier?

Thanks!

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2

I was you a few months ago, and it is like herding cats to get any forum to collectively agree to do anything.

I found getting the basics through build threads difficult because there is so much assumed knowledge. I got responses that this is a forum for builds for those with knowledge and experience, which is fair enough if that is the premise.

I have a variety of questions I know I just can’t ask because they will be ignored, so it is about waiting until someone does what I want to do, instead of asking how.

All you can do, from my guess, is follow the newer builds and base your starting point from there.

The 6384 motor seems standard, ESCs seem to be all usable with good cooling and within amp range, some batteries can be bought complete, and the rest is still a mystery to me of how it all gets put together, especially pods, cables and plugs.

Hopefully some contributors can give you personal guidance

3

I guess you are overthinking it.

It is as simple as it seems.

You take one of the working motors (I.e. Saite 6384 or Flipsky 6384 or you waterproff the BDUAV (Ali) 6384), any of the ESC’s and a battery, put it in a waterproof case, add a remote and you are done.

The number of options results from the huge number of different use cases or how much time people are willing to put into a build.

4

Its really not that hard to find the valuable information. A lot depends on how much you want to shortcut though. Guys spend hours on designs so don’t always expect them to just give them up free. From the electronics side, thats pretty easy to figure things out and there are multiple routes to take depending on how much money you want to spend.

Mast clamps: If you dont have or can’t find a design, there are numerous options to purchase from including Foil Drive themselves.

Electronics: Foil Drive use Maytech gear so go to their site and you’ll find everything you need apart from the motor.

Motor: Saite 6384 140Kv or Flipsky 6384 140KV (both waterproof) are good.

Prop: there are numerous companies you can buy from

Housing: This is where the money and design comes into it. Very few are going to offer up good Gen2 style designs because of the margins they could sell for if they did. This is where Foil Drive makes all their money.

Kparts do a load of stuff: https://kparts-watersports.com/en/shop/E-FOIL-ACCESSORIES-POD-c159415759

If you really crafty, hunt Facebook for a broken Foil Drive housing and then do a teardown and put new electronics in it.

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5

Great starting point.
This should be pinned as the best generic advice (and a disclaimer “if this isn’t enough information, then this project isn’t for you”)

7

I also agree with Kparts as a great source for quality products, and to buy a used or broken Foil Drive Gen 1 or Gen 2 to get started.

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8

Yes, you are correct. It is fairly easy to find the info but what I have trouble with are the details. Here are some of the details that are a bit more vague and hard to choose the right path for a reliable build. They don’t need to be answered in this thread at this time but they are some examples newbies like myself may struggle with-

Motor bearings:
Is it better run ceramic or stainless? What lasts longer? Where is the best place to buy them?

ESC:
Which brand is the most reliable? How to buy one that has working firmware? How do you program it, and what other hardware do you need for this? What amperage do you need?

Battery:
What cells are the best? Where do you buy them? To BMS or not to BMS? What spot welder will work good enough? Where do you get the battery building supplies like nickel strips and fish paper? What wire to use for the balance wires? Where to buy a fully built one that isn’t counterfeit and in the right configuration?

Other Electronics:
What charger to buy and where? Do we need a shut off? External BMS? Anything else I’m missing?

Remote: Which brand is the best? Even if it says waterproof do you still need to pot the internals? How do you program it for use with Faux drive?

Those are some of the details that I wind up going down rabbit holes on and have find it hard to make purchasing decisions. It would be cool to have a wiki or spreadsheet with that info on it that is taken from the different builds.

I’m not trying to shortcut my way into a build, I know it takes work. I just want to build something somewhat reliable using the collective experience from the many great builders here.

9

The issue is that there are commercial entities that watch this forum and wish, beg and pray that the guys with the real knowledge throw it out there for free. I’ve been approached multiple times by companies asking for advice and designs and they always try to take everything without giving anything back.

Foil Drive started on this forum (user rcjetman). They weren’t the first assist (other forums had designs years before them) or the best assist design, but they took the initiative to start a company and its payed off insanely!

In terms of all the component breakdowns you speak of, those are the little industry secrets that allow companies to make money and survive. Throw them out there and China will clone cheap knockoffs in an instant. But then you end up fighting and losing money when there’s no customer support.

The best bet is to really create a build log, ask for help and advice there and be prepared to test and spend some extra.

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10

Who s hunting here? Why cant we do an open source original foilzone licensed product. I ll share my crappy build details.

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Maytech, Eray, Flipsky, Hobiba, Saite and thats just a few I know from China…

Then there’s a whole bunch of other commercial players around the world…

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I don’t get the point of close source for assists and tows.
Maslow cnc went open source and so a bunch of players sold ready-made kits which only increased the community. In the end, it pushed the product to a level that would never have been obtained in close source, «on your own», « only buy through me ».
By keeping things simili private here, it is only encouraging more businesses to refurbish these concepts, slapping a nice sticker logo on it and selling it as their own design

13

I don’t understand what exactly you think will happen.

The forum is free for anyone to use and lightly moderated as it’s funded by an individual since its inception.

Most new participants simply take and give what they can using the existing format that seems to work for the majority.

It has evolved to the state that you found it in when you joined a few months ago.

Do you really expect that all participants here are going to suddenly change how they go about participating just because you say it should be different?

I don’t see you spearheading a change - just lecturing anyone that has responded to you about this. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

14

Where did I lecture anyone? Where have I asked for a change in how people participate?

I’m basically asking if there is a way to consolidate information and if that is a good idea. If not, no big deal.

I didn’t mean to offend anyone or take away from the many contributions others have made to the forum.

It sounds like a bad idea so I will just delete the topic and move on…thanks!

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I have been a member since 2023, lurking and gathering info, not trying to be noob asking the same questions people like you have answered over and over that irritates you. So now I have questions after researching and still get blasted…gotta love forums!

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My comments were directed to @Adri1 as I replied to his post.

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Lets look at all the 3D printer designs… With all the open source options, the full commercial are still more advanced and more reliable. It’s simple, the money made from sales pays someone to be on the development full time. So if someone wih good knowledge wants to safeguard their knowledge in case they may go commercial, good on them.
The only guys that really complain about other guys keeping a bit of knowledge inside tend to be the ones that either can’t think for themselves or want to leach information for their own gain.

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18

A first attempt at a beginner guide. I’m still mostly a beginner. I’ve copied pieces of insight from across the forum that seemed to be “general wisdom”.

Every comment here is designed to give simple general pointers, to avoid overthinking. Keep your first build simple. If you get stuck and nothing comes up on this forum, ask ChatGPT and search RC forums.

This applies to efoil, foil assist, tow-boogie and backpack foil setups.

Proceed with caution.

Build

Starting from the propeller and working the way along the power:

Propeller

There are numerous companies you can buy from, make sure to match prop to the motor
Cheap = Flipsky, Maytech
Good quality = Kparts, Foil Drive

Motor

Saite 6384 140Kv or Flipsky 6384 140KV (both waterproof) are good.

Motor bearings:
Is it better run ceramic or stainless?

Buy a waterproof motor. Flush with fresh water after use. Soaking in CorrosionX is a good hack for longevity.

Mast clamps

Foil Drive or Kparts to match your foil mast

Electronics:

Flipsky and Maytech have most of the necessary electronics. Keep the cabling neat and carefully soldered. Buy a good soldering iron and use AWG12 thickness for a start for most cabling.

ESC:
Which brand is the most reliable? How to buy one that has working firmware? How do you program it, and what other hardware do you need for this? What amperage do you need?

Flipsky, Sequre, Maytech (order of popularity) require a bit time working through the config via USB.

Flycolor a good option if you don’t want to plug into a computer.

VESC config can be more of a hassle than it is worth, so keep it simple at the start

Battery:
What cells are the best? Where do you buy them? To BMS or not to BMS? What spot welder will work good enough? Where do you get the battery building supplies like nickel strips and fish paper? What wire to use for the balance wires? Where to buy a fully built one that isn’t counterfeit and in the right configuration?

Find someone nearby to build one, or buy an existing efoil battery, or learn to build (order of popularity). Be careful of batteries.

Housing:

Start simple with a waterproof case or Camdenboss box, and make some holes and waterproof them with high quality cable glands. Be careful of rapidly changing temperature causing the box to suck air.

First improvement is a simple heatsink embedded into the box.

Mistakes here are the most costly, so do it carefully.

Other Electronics:
What charger to buy and where? Do we need a shut off? External BMS? Anything else I’m missing?

Buy a 12S capable RC lipo / lion battery charger or similar, and charge and store in a safe place (search fire safety)

Remote: Which brand is the best? Even if it says waterproof do you still need to pot the internals? How do you program it for use with Faux drive?

Good: Bremote, Manta
Cheap: Flipsky, Maytech (leak if treated poorly)

What Foil?

Big, slow, cheap. Upgrade once you understand it better.

Other advice?

  1. Facebook for a broken Foil Drive housing and then do a teardown and put new electronics in it. This is a great cheap starter, and you can improve on a working unit.

  2. Start with a box+motor, and try a foil assist / tow-boogie combo, as this is the easiest to build, and see what you discover through that process.

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19

I suggest you do the knowledge consolidation using AI. It should be possible by now…
Maybe like creating MCP server or train a model on that knowledge.

1.5 years ago, when I started, I made this website in an attempt to consolidate information. 'https://foil-assist.vercel.app/ . Then I gathered notes to update the website, but didn’t.

I think now AI way is the best.

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20

That is a nice assessment. The original post wasn’t actually about beginner information, but a compilation of files for printing.

I hijacked it with my comments.

As someone who has also started my builds as a beginner, your comment misses many of the frustrations I had, just as my complete list would ignore yours and others. I thought about creating something myself, but have found this forum frustrating and vow never to return, but here I am.

If someone like me posted something like my first ‘help me I know nothing’ post, I would reply now:

Start with ChatGpt, ask about how all the different parts of an efoil work. This forum is not for technical questions but different build combinations and the results.

But very importantly ChatGpt doesn’t ‘volunteer’ any information and the specific answers can be misleading.

My beginner mistake was not using ChatGpt and relying on searches and asking questions here. My first VESC Tool session almost broke me, my last one with ChatGpt was easy.

However I had problems when I wanted to limit maximum speed, it recommended fervently using duty cycle current limit, which can’t be done on standard VESC Tool, then calculated a ridiculously low ERPM, which when I questioned based on some previous answers based on power usage, gave me the correct number.

Anyway, no one is still reading at this stage of this long comment, but I feel better for getting my frustrations out.

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I understand your frustrations. Chatgpt can be misleading.
You probably reply to someone else, if you reply at all. But for any case, I would emphasis that my post about AI is not about using existing public tools, but about building a tool.