Another overhyped, overpriced influencer product. I’m starting to think many foilers are so addicted to the sport they will pay anything to get their fix. Selling “Stoke” has becone very profitable!
This is the route I wound up going with. I 3d printed a box from ABS and wrapped it in carbon. Just need to sink it in the board and carbon over the top to glue it in and I will have enough room for up to a 12s5p setup.
Next level of weird product ideas.
1 Like
I think that (voga marines FD inboard solution) is a great concept… except you now have the added weight of the FD box/surrounds (engineered to take the force of the foil base plate) which is now not required.
I wonder if FD will produce a lightweight version of their box for this type of thing - it would certainly mean they would directly compete with Riift - while allowing users to stay within the FD ecosystem.
I think this is a way better solution than the trench boards which are really just a workaround to accommodate the FDs inherent drag - unless the trench is a perfect fit and flush and highly hydrodynamic (certainly not what i have seen to date).
Having a closed cavity on the deck which has some leeway fore and aft would allow the user to dial in what COG they prefer - while also being able to dial in the ideal mast position under the board. It also means they could use different battery sizes. It also solves the faraday cage issue.
1 Like
Voga’s product is a flawed concept. Most foilers value a clean deck more than a perfectly clean bottom.
The core reason FD gen2 exists is to be able to take it from board to board easily. Guys are getting lost watching the paid riders ride the fancy concepts and all the crazy weird trench boards when more than 50% of the riders are simply just plonking the gen2 under the board.
I love the Riift concept, I designed it years ago, but simply put it does have a limited market because you need to either modify a board or buy a new or custom one. Thats a lot more expensive than picking up a used board somewhere on marketplace.
The other thing to note is how assists are gradually getting bigger and heavier, which is kind of defeating the purpose of the assist and essentially driving them back to just being an efoil.
FD’s original assists were 11S 12.6Ah. Their new Max+ (old max will be discontinued) is 12S 15Ah. My old efoils were all 12S 20Ah and I used to get over an hour of run time just efoiling. Now if I want a short fun blast I actually opt for a 14S 12.5Ah pack which gets me around an hour but with less weight.
I think there is still space in the market for innovation.
1 Like
In the end FD might land where some DIYS people from this forum are for years. Sell a complete board with controller (maybe modular) and a hatch for a small battery.
If they team up with a board brand, that should be feasable to develop in short time. Integrated masts are already available.
There is a lot of room still I think. I’m still amazed that total weight of some of these systems doesn’t get that much attention. It shouldn’t be this easy to build a system with better specs than commericial options in a garage (try doing that with an e-mtb, or any other high cost sports product). Lots of pretty looking systems out there now but short of increasing voltage and battery size there hasn’t really been that much innovation. Riift reducing the motor/pod diameter is probably the biggest improvement in the commerical space?..
Technically it will most likely always be easier for DIY. A production solution needs to be far more robust and the batteries always need to be certified etc.
Actually I can build a better eMTB than most of the big players if I buy a solid frame. With motors like the CYC Photon Pro you get way more power, exceptional control and can use so many different frame types.
I guess a lot comes to how polished you want things.
I think the Riift solution actually did amazing work, but left a bit on the table which isn’t a bad thing. I’m not going to state where the next few big things are cause I’m working on those in the background hoping I can make something of it. But the one thing I will say is that what I hope I can achieve is not just make the assist better, but also give DIY guys great options to ease the pain point of their builds…
I guess that depends on what you consider better in an e-mtb but point taken 
Anyway if you take batteries aside (lets be honest, a lot of the batteries used in the commercial units are essentially DIY grade - sure they may be ‘certified’ but they’re essentially the same cells, BMS, and cables in heat skrink) , and the electronics - a hobby grade Maytech remote, off the shelf hobby ESC that some of the big players use the only real differences are all in the tooled/ custom mechanical parts like battery cases, seals.
For products that command the retail price these do, I guess I’m surprised that there aren’t some more impressive motors out there yet (smaller, lower drag, lighter etc.) compared to what was out there 3-4 years ago.
It’d be awesome for someone to come up with a ready to go backpack setup with nice leash/cable interface and waistbelt/backpack setup that suited common off the shelf parts. Sign me up haha.
Foiling is such a small segment of the electric sport industry it’s hard to innovate past what is already available in terms of cells, motors and speed controllers.
The product brands are selling is reliability, support, parts availability, ease of use and slipperiness. And the influencers.
Slightly off topic but this guy here build a drone in his living room and took out a $750k prize at the darpa challenge a few weeks ago. Using off the shelf components. https://youtu.be/kXqXWcw-hSI?si=S8UFvaGg-Oq0W-oG it’s a great watch.
4 Likes
Very true - hopefully as the sport grows we see a little bit more than packaing existing parts - I think motor size is where there is still room for some improvement, they’re the bit that remind you you’re riding an assist and not a normal foil. Cells and speed controllers totally agree. Although given how many people accept riding with Gen2 foildrives dragging below the board maybe I’m an outlier…
Damn influencers 
Wicked video!
I consider it extra weird.
FD upside is, it works with any board and it has direct cooling. And you buy this by the product being pretty expensive and somewhat heavy.
With that board you keep the disadvantages, while giving up the positive attributes.
And the board will also add another layer of extra weight and maybe some deck issues.
1 Like
I think the group that buys Foil Drive simply has the money to spend and do not really care that much if it’s 3k or 5k. And the group that does not want to afford FD is in almost the same situation and won’t buy no matter if it’s 3k or 5k.
The group that would buy for 3k but not for 5k, is extremely small imo.
So for a new player, there is not much reason to offer something for less than FD. Maybe even the opposite, as that could make the product “seem” less reliable.
I am surprised there is not more after market options yet, like replacement batteries or motors for significantly less than FD is asking.
This is a very accurate statement. When you look at the cost of most foils, they are insane! So guys don’t mind spending in the upper region.
FD continuously drive 3rd party options as breach of warranty behind closed doors. Technically this breaches consumer protection laws all over the world, but because its behind their Facebook group and their core influencers support them, they can control it and get away with it. They’ve left a big door open to a better product though. Now its to see if anyone can come up with a solid plan to trump them…
I think Riift will overtake FD very quickly. Its just so much easier to setup, and you can use the dummy box if you dont need a powered setup. You can essentially own 1 board for everything. It really is a much more simple and elegant solution than FD. Silly expensive though, 12s2p for $5000 is just a rippoff.
Get ready for lots of used FD gear to hit the market.
1 Like
There’s a yes and a no to it…
If I look at a lot of the guys that ride FD, they never ride without it. If they have already invested in a trench board and are happy then why replace all of it. I’d be more prone to replace once I have run out of batteries.
FD’s major issue now is a pure lack of innovation. I’d argue their new max+ sales won’t nearly match what they will want and their design methodology with the fusion and max+ is a massive fail. Their COG is also going to be proven to be incorrect which will damage a lot of confidence in their systems.
Riift face a different dilemna, anyone can make electronics for their tracks. Realistically that means it may massively reduce the cost in time. At ±400USD for their tracks, making a board is easy and then I DIY the electronics and have a fantastic setup.
Flite lab also have something new on the horizon too apparently, so it will be interesting to see what that is.
I do not really see that.
Not that I am a fan of FD.
But with FD, you can just use your board without anything.
I’d argue that is better than having the extra weight of those tracks+the insert.
And you can use the setup on any board you have, without paying to put a track box in each of them.
If it’s 400, that is not cheap.
Also you will run into problems if you want to use one of those new hollow boards (which will become really common soon I think).
Actually, the next level is tow-boogie with two Foil Drives )))
1 Like
Manufacturers of silicone lubricants are already counting their windfall profits.
