Hydrodynamics of hydrofoils, roll stability, input?

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Dear all, I am having fun playing with my e-foil (Waydoo Flyer One Plus with Explorer wing) and designing wings for it. The aim is not to make the next best hydrofoil, but I would like to experiment and play and understand/validate the physics involved. And at least for me, it is much more fun to fly on your own DIY foil, than to ride a commercial one.

I started with a very simple, flat Clark-Y wing with no twist and identical area as the original Waydoo wing. It was flying ok, but requiring more power for the same speed (no surprise). The 3D print didn’t survive a crash. This showed me that general assumptions on airplane wings are also true for the efoil (actually this should be clear, but I wanted to validate this).

The next one uses about 2° wingtip twist (in airplanes, this enhances flight characteristics during turns and makes stall behaviour smoother), some anhedral (less than the original Waydoo explorer wing) and a RG-15 airfoil (this is one of the most popular airfoils for model aircraft flying at similar Re). The 3D print was coated with glass fibre and some carbon.

This wing has, as far as I can tell, slightly higher top speed at the same throttle setting. The rest, including turning and slow speed characteristics near stall, feels very similar. But the RG-15 wing is way more agile on roll. After my feet got used to this “loose feeling” (feels a bit like a loose snowboard binding), I like it better than the original wing.

But I wonder why the roll agility has increased. My theory was the following:
In my 30 kg e-foil, the pivot point for roll etc. lies in the centre of gravity, which is approximately located inside the surfboard. When looking from left or right side at the efoil, the projected area under this pivot is responsible for roll stability. More negative dihedral increases the projected area when viewed from the side, and therefore increases roll stability.

To validate this, I did a quick test and attached winglets to the wing (the effect of winglets on roll stability is pretty similar to dihedral on airplanes). I designed the winglets in a way that they can be pointing upwards or pointing downwards.

If only the projected area counts, then mounting the winlets up or downwards should make hardly any difference. But the test flights showed that:

  • Winglets pointing downwards made roll very stable, like on rails
  • Winglets pointing upwards made roll very unstable, pretty difficult to control

This is something I don’t really understand. I tried to find information in the internet, but it is difficult to find some real information within all the marketing blabla on hydrofoils.

Has anyone some ideas on this?

P.S.: As I said, I believe there’s no magic involved in designing the first 90% of wing performance. The basic knowledge from model aircraft design flying at similar Re might be sufficient. There might be some magic involved in the remaining 10%, but I don’t currently care about that last 10%.

Clark-Y validation

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RG-15 wing with good performance:

Experiments with winglets - the quick and dirty way.

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Sorry for all these posts, but I am only allowed to add one image per post.

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Welcome

I can’t comment on your post as I don’t have enough subject matter expertise to say anything meaningful

If you want some design inspiration I would suggest looking at the Gong Foil site. They have been at this for quite some time and have an incredibly large range of foils, stabs, masts etc.

You could have a look at the „ “Board & Hydrofoil building“ FB group, see this post: Redirecting...?

The EWD has very big influence on rollstaboitity. What angle do you use for the RG15?

I think it is more complicated, than you think.
I build a few foils and tried a lot more.

Roll agility is significantly linked to how stable a foil is in the water. With a foil where you feel uncomfortable riding, you will enact far less force to roll, so it will feel like it is not rolling.

This was the case with the first generation ha wings. They needed very little force to actually roll (due to low area), but still were extremely hard to roll turn effectively.

you should, for science :grinning:, try a bi-plane wing, half the span same area, in this style. would be interesting to know how something like that works underwater.

Well there is a reason that biplanes “died” in aviation. 4 wingtips create a lot of turbulence and resistance.

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Thanks for the tip, there is lot’s of information! Although some parts don’t seem logical or physical. But they also describe what I have seen (no explanation unfortunately):

Lowered Dihedral

Characteristics: The wing’s halves tilt downward, creating a descending shape at the center.
Advantages: Better grip in the water during turns and reduces vibrations in choppy waters.
Disadvantages: Reduces glide due to extra drag and less lift from the surface area.

Raised Dihedral

Characteristics: The wing’s halves tilt upwards, forming a gentle upward curve.
Advantages: Increases rail-to-rail movement, making the foil very maneuverable and reduces the behavior anomalies, supporting better glide.
Disadvantages: Less control, particularly in chop and at high speeds. More demanding, suitable for advanced riders.

Lowered Tips (Negative Dihedral)

Characteristics: Tips are angled downward, further from the water surface.
Advantages: Enhances grip in turns, increasing control in sharp turns or choppy conditions.
Disadvantages: Increased drag, limiting glide and top speed.

Raised Tips (Positive Dihedral)

Characteristics: Tips curve upward.
Advantages: Increases maneuverability, especially in rail-to-rail transitions, and helps the foil lift a tip out of the water for slashing moves.
Disadvantages: Requires tolerant profiles due to frequent “tip out” situations and can be dangerous when falling.

Source: https://www.gong-galaxy.com/en/collections/wing-foil-foil-setups-beginners

Hi, I have an angle of incidence (with respect to the horizontal stab of 3° in the centre and 2° at the wing tips. I tried going with +0.5° and - 0.5° and didn’t notice a difference. When calculating the lift at my desired cruise speed (25-30 km/h), then this gives roughly 100 kg lift.
But this was my first attempt, I measured the EWD of the original foil, and it was also in this range.

Ok, maybe I was just lucky with my first attempt, or wings on E-foils are way less critical than on wingfoils. The latter is probably the case. I just found this wing:

And they describe exactly the same effect of winglets. But stil lthere is no explanation that I could find.
My next wing is already printed. It has the same airfoil twist setup, similar planform, but higher aspect ratio and slightly more area. And more anhedral. I would like to use it to try some wave surfing with my new folding prop.