Toroidal Propellors

[freefoil]

seriously, this world has gone nuts.

[markula]

But dosent Sharrow have patends proventing other to sell a Toroidal Propeller ?

[SoEFoil]

@Jezza

Not sure how many guys have seen this:

Hundreds probably same thread

Toroidal Propellors

A first commercial toroidal prop at 239usd. Performance should be better than a jet and safe without duct as demonstrated by the merciless “courgette test”. This propeller (…) was tested in a lab environment with Lift Efoils under variable conditions. Better performance of up to 25% compared with the Lift stock Aluminum prop may be achieved at cruise speeds of up to 17 MPH. You should be able to increase your riding time (…) If you ride a board other than a Fliteboard or Lift, please le…

[Jezza]

It’s $589, not $239…

[SoEFoil]

I can ensure you it was 239usd two months ago. The “courgette effect” which allows to get rid of the shroud has a price.

[Larsb]

Nah, it’s just overpriced, really.

[Strongarm]

The $239 was a speed/ power limited 3d printed version.

[SoEFoil]

Even if overpriced, the positive point is that, like propellerking.com, they propose incremental designs whose performance can be measured and, let’s hope, improved.

PROPELLERKING.COM - The Store For Propeller Lovers

Will we have the chance to see a toroidal prop on your site in 2023 ?

[Foilguy]

The website says it’s BETA so the only difference I noticed from there initial offering was a price increase.

The site offers no technical detail at all on the prop, just an email for contact so no phone or street address.

Still seems pretty sketchy to me at now double the price!!

[Jezza]

They have sold a bunch to Lift foilers. The general “feel” (because there’s no logging or decent electronics on the board) seem to be that they have slightly more torque at take off but have the same efficiency as a standard prop.

[SoEFoil]

Any information about the max speed standard vs toroidal ?

[HamburgHarbourFoiler]

Comparing that is nonsense.

Compare power consumption with exactly same setup and rider and wind with two different props at same speed.
Any other comparison is telling you absolutely nothing.

[SoEFoil]

@HamburgHarbourFoiler

Comparing that is nonsense.

We’re just at the beginning. If today you get more torque during startup, same max speed with 5% more amps, it’s better than a jet amp wise, safer than standard props (radial) but still risky without shroud. It’s promising.

@HamburgHarbourFoiler

Compare power consumption with exactly same setup and rider and wind with two different props at same speed.

The true nonsense is EfoilSolution not doing this std vs toroidal prop test.
The aim of this thread is also for the idea to catch on. If EfoilSolution have sold a bunch, there should be a DiY efoiler somewhere in the world with a efoil fitted with a FR or LIFT drive train who knows a Efoilsolution toro prop owner who will test and publish data very soon. @Flightjunkie, @Jezza ?

[Larsb]

Well, means the diff is too small to motivate price. It’s not like it’s hard to do a simple test, hard to get all conditions comparable, yes, but if you want to show a 600$ difference then i think the improvement should be clear even in a simple test with some measurement spread.

[SoEFoil]

@Larsb

if you want to show a 600$ difference then i think the improvement should be clear

Let’s say EfoilSolution is the first company daring to sell a toroidal version. The first one means “monopoly situation” with "monopoly prices (It’s no coincidence that prices have risen by a factor of 2.3 since June). When (if ?) the competition kicks in, prices will necessarily plumet unless IP rights are applied…
Toroidal props are not more complicated to cast than 3 blade ones.
Let’s imagine next November we have three competitors with a mean price of 180usd, what would you do ?

[aemkei77]

@SoEFoil

it is finger friendly without shroud.

I would not stick a finger in it, or a toe (more likely to happen by accident)
Would you?

[Larsb]

I would probably not buy it. I am not convinced that it is safer (finger getting into loops) and i doubt it will be more efficient, the smell of hype is too strong still.

We’ll know in a year, maybe.

[SoEFoil]

Many (50% ?) riders decide to remove the shroud on fixed or rotating blades. Highly dangerous but take the chance though.
It’s only the perpendicular direction to axis of rotation which is safe with toroidals. The finger is ejected without cut.
You are right, it is not enough but still safer than standard propellers without shroud.
Corrected…

EDIT: see the e-Surfer test just below, no prop guard with the standard prop and none with the toroidal either.

[SoEFoil]

A first test of the EfoilSolution toro prop by E-surfer Germany (August 6th 2023)
Very sleek, probably CNC’ed in a single alu block. The long machine time explains the price.

As a first subjective impression, no data, “rides soft and easy” “too early to give a final impression” “rides much faster on remote with level 6 position than the standard LIFT prop”.
A final impression was supposed to be released a week after (circa August 15th)
Still in progress…

Toroidal eFoil propeller

[Jezza]

It will be interesting. The lift props are 6" pitch so if this is 7" it would feel faster at the same trigger position. They haven’t actually released what the pitch is so no one knows.

Rich “Lifters” probably won’t care and just purchase it anyway…