Hey @FoilFiesta you know the majority of these issues are from one delivery batch to the West Coast of US, right? They obviously had issues with a specific production run but are air-freighting replacement parts to get those backers sorted out ASAP.
East Coast backers are receiving their boards now and I don’t believe reporting similar issues. Canadian backers (myself included) are receiving boards (from a later, apparently fixed production run) next week - so I will report back.
If they all fail, Waydoo is going to be in trouble from a reputation and financial position. But as of right now they are replacing bad parts under warranty. I’ve spoken to their North American distributor directly and he is on top of this - a good guy with lots of experience in the water-sports industry. I’m hopeful and glad he has our backs (even though we didn’t buy retail)
A good number of these backers with failed parts aren’t mad - most even super stoked they were able to get an eFoil at this price point and are willing to give Waydoo a chance to make it right.
Personally if I wasn’t a backer I would wait until the Spring 2021 to see if these early production issues diminish and the quality of the boards they are delivering to retailers has improved before making up my mind on Waydoo.
As someone, meaning you, who’s built some nice boards, how did you come to $6k? My estimates would be such:
Board $800
Battery $800
Motor $350
Controller $250
Remote $100
Foil $600
That’s around $3k and at retail prices. Am I missing something?
When esk8s started we had Boosted selling at $2,000. I built my own for $200 at retail prices, not as nice, but it worked well. I see boards similar to Boosted for $300 now. I think the same thing will happen with efoils. Might take a decade, but I bet you’ll see them selling at Costco for $1,500 before too long.
Yes, all the extra parts like latches, various waterproofing items, sea deck, etc. add up more than you might guess. I just spent $100+ on corrosion x!
I bet you’ll see them selling at Costco for $1,500 before too long
Not any time soon. There are inherent properties of efoils that will always make them cost much, much more than esk8’s. Also, a really cheap retail esk8 that is barely enjoyable for a 200lbs adult on mostly flat ground for any range is still $650.
If efoils ever become products on the shelves of big box stores they will be regulated out of existence just like those stupid hoverboards. There are too many idiots in this world that will take them to crowded beach areas and haul ass through marinas and no wake zones.
Pretty easily…
When you are building commercially vs DIY it’s completely different. I can build a DIY board for ±$2k because I don’t care if it’s pretty or not, or if the branding doesn’t all match etc…
If I were to build a proper commercial unit it would look more like this:
BMS (you have to have a good quality BMS on a commercial board): $200
Motor: ±$400 (I wouldn’t use the 65161 for a commercial build)
Speed controller: $400
Remote: $100
Foil: $1865 (I would only go with a Unifoil hyper combo)
Connectors, Wires, Tubing: $200
So total comes to… $5465 just in component costs! Now add in labour and import costs and you are in for somewhere between $7-8k. Then it’s marketing costs for business etc. Very quickly you can see exactly why Lift and Fliteboard charge $12k for a premium board with premium components…
In a production environment you need to make a board dumbass proof. Otherwise you’ll end up with countless returns. I did a favour for a friend and built him a simple board… He rode it once and blew his speed controller, receiver and battery because he didn’t close the hatch properly… I then built him another battery and he replaced the components. He rode it a second time and midway through noticed something smoking. Looked in the hatch and realised he hadn’t connected the water cooling. Flooded hatch and all the same drama again. This time I told him he has to build his own components and make each individual one waterproof so that its dumbass-proof…
This is exactly what I have tried to explain a few times in a few other places on the forum. Mass use brings mass injuries and mass regulation. It’s that simple… None of use here would surely want that!
Yep, I have seen it happen over and over again with all the emerging new leisure sports that involve technology from kiting (launch spots diminish by the day) to ebiking (crazy unfair speed and power restrictions now in most places) to drones. Idiots hurt themselves and others, then blame the tech, and the ancient, luddites feel the need to keep people “safe” and possibly prevent the handful of future accidents that might have resulted from allowing these “dangerous and obscene newfangled contraptions” to hurt anyone else despite the fact that McDonald’s and car crashes are taking people out in droves.
Badly calculated prices …
My mala is around 2200, - €
All purchased series parts except for the engine and box …
You could throw 5000 to 6000 on the market …
Greetings Frank
One gruesome injury photo where a kid or innocent bystander has had a prop or leading edge tear them up will be all it takes in some places. Looks like the nanny state of Canada already has regulated them so harshly that VeConcepts has now disappeared.
I actually think this is a different issue entirely. His initial kickstarter was to opensource plans. Then he pivoted to want to sell a complete kit. Then all of a sudden realised just how hard a full production kit is and simply hasn’t completed it now for whatever reason (could be money, health, time etc). Ultimately if he wants to fulfil his kickstarter, he can just release the plans…
Many DIY guys have no concept of how intense full scale production is, how much it costs, and how perfect a product needs to be to avoid returns and lawsuits (especially if your company is in the Western world) etc.
Flying rodeo had the right idea… release small, mostly mechanical components and then let DIY/commercial guys buy those and put them together themselves. If they put them together badly, its their own fault and your return ratio is lower.
The biggest problem (IMHO) is the “commercial” aspect. In order for anybody to continue to produce these things they need to make a profit. Water sports products are typically based on lower volume and higher profit margins. Once you add in a reseller and a support network, the $4k Efoil simply doesn’t work. There is no doubt that a workable Efoil can be built for less than $4k. Commercially…no way. Add in the eventual regulation of these products and there will only be a few survivors.
I see the future going to two modes. 1) A very high end product and 2) more of the FR model producing parts for an easy DIY build. Boards are going to be an issue and probably where we will see quite a few popup companies finding a way into the market.
Hoping the current Transport Canada regulations (that vastly predate eFoil technology) will be updated soon.
There is a Transport Canada meeting Nov 12 and I’m trying to coordinate Canadians to write their members of parliament in support of updating the laws. (If anyone wants more info on how to help please email efoilcanada@googlegroups.com)
I do wonder if part of the reason it’s restricted here in Canada is because of our public-funded healthcare system - trying to minimize public health risks…but that’s a conversation for another thread.
Waydoo MSRP is currently $4800-$6600 USD depending on configuration and materials. It’s definitely ambitious. Prices falling on battery technology in the coming years will help greatly.
$4k was the Kickstarter price and it’s unlikely they made much money on those especially considering shipping was included to many places.
Support is no better than the product. Waydoo angered backers by shipping to retailers in the first batch. They said they were doing it to establish support for everyone. Now we see that was another lie and distributors got nothing for supporting backers.
Replacement parts are enroute to NA distributor. They air freighted some of them from China and are working through the other issues on a case-by-case basis. There was definitely an initial communication issue between Waydoo China and the small group of NA backers having issues but they are working on fixing that and getting proper processes in place.
I say this all only having insight from the private backers FB group where they have been increasingly more responsive and transparent about what is going on.
Again, anyone on the fence about buying a Waydoo is advised to wait until the spring to see how they handle any backer warranty issues between now and then.
FWIW my board arrived today. Will be unboxing tomorrow and hopefully riding if it’s not too cold in the next week or so.
I have been following this feed since the beginning. I am backer #51 and have had my Waydoo Flyer One for one week now. I wrote a comprehensive review that outlines the good, the bad and my overall impressions thus far. It is posted on my LeaderSurf leadership development site although the review has very little connection to what I do for work. Waydoo Flyer One EFoil Review (Updated March 2022)
