Self introduction and consideration of wind to efoil conversion assesment

Build, Repair & Mod
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Hello foiling world-

This is my “Pre” post. I’m a total newb who while stand up paddleboarding just decided they should have an efoil. I’ve done my obligatory days of reading and bookmarking… . I don’t know anyone with an efoil, and I don’t see many in my area (Pacific Northwest USA). For background I am a maker, with electronics background and some battery and BMS experience, lots of wood working, and a little fiberglass work. I have had and used a battery welder for years (even built one from scratch way back using a huge cap and SCR). While I have not built any packs to the scale of an efoil battery, I understand what I’m seeing and the surrounding discussions.

I haven’t ridden a foil yet, but have a long history of wheeled and board sports. While I could rent/lesson in my area for around $3-500 per session, I’m more inclined to just get or build an efoiland do it.

I have been reading extensively, and watching YT builds. Lots of information although I am not seeing any pinned threads on “current best practices for wind to E conversions”, or documented builds that align most with what I’ve imagined. I’ve found and saved some documents like calculators for choosing battery size, tables with evaluations of different cells.

I have opportunities to buy a set of gen2 Lift boards (a 5’0 and a 4’4" with one light battery) in the $5000 range; I don’t know the condition of the one battery other than it has been sitting unused and likely un-maintained for months. I also see another 5’0 lift gen2 with full size gen3 battery for abouit $5500 after tax and shipping. And I already have an AK Phazer 5’8" 90L wind foil deck I could convert by cutting in a battery compartment (no mast or foils at this time). I’m trying to understand the aspects of a conversion if this board seems suitable. Waydoo Evo or other used efoils look interesting too. I see a new Fliteboard Fiberglass - Series 5 for $1600 plus tax and shipping which looks like a good place to start building, but since I have the AK Phazer to work with, I want to explore that before dropping the $$ on the fliteboard.

Oh ya, I have a friend of a friend who has a dedicated board building shed that is available along with their guidance. This could be useful for modifying the Phazer, or a full build although I’m not currently as interested in a full build (but what do I know…)

I’ve been looking for threads documenting similar wind foil board conversions but it seems more popular to start from scratch, or from a donor surf or paddle board than a windfoil board.

I’m trying to determine if my AK Phazer 90L is suitable for a conversion (cutting in the battery compartment).

I don’t see many conversion threads, it seems to mostly be full builds from scratch or external batteries and electronics strapped to the deck in a sealed Pelican or similar case.

First questions & concerns I’ve come up with if converting the AK Phazer-

  • Location of battery compartment/well - weight distribution?
  • This AK Phazer has a “handle hole” in the bottom center for carrying it. The board is fairly thick but I’m unsure if this built in handle will interfere with a battery compartment.
  • What/how to make the well (cut the hole and glass it in, or combo of 3D printed parts, or pre make a drop in well with glass or CF and drop it in the cut hole.
  • Building the deck plate, how to attach it, and sealing of the battery well
  • Battery size and form factor (assume I need this before making a well?)
  • How to passively cool the ESC using mast when using a donor board. I’ve struggled to find documented builds showing this. I did save a thread that talked about using a rod of aluminum between the mast mounting plate and the ESC mounting plate as a thermal bridge but it did not include pictures and I did not understand the approach.

For consideration, I am 5’8" and about 162lbs.

On the topic of battery building, I have seen quite a bit more discussion on this and have saved enough that I should be able to pick and choose the approach for this.

On the topic of power/electronics and a mast, I have also seen quite a bit on this and feel comfortable with what my options are (like Gong and filpsky)

I am not in a rush, I do need to be responsible with my spending (Over $5k usd would be a strain for finances), I do enjoy projects, and I don’t want to jump into something that is not practical, for example, if converting the AK Phazer were not a good approach, or buying Gen2 Lifts with only one questionable light battery.

I am also experienced buying direct from Alibaba, but not seeing much end user discussion which identifies any current sellers or models that are worth considering; either as a complete efoil, or even just the board and build from there. I’d be interested if there were links to current discussions on this topic that I may have missed.

I’d like to get some feedback on the potential conversion of the AK phazer for starters. If there are links/threads/YT videos specifically on wind foil to efoil conversions including the battery compartment design and build, that would be appreciated.

Thank you

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I have something of a bias as I’m recommending what I use but the Fliteboard route is tried and tested good. Battery and VESC inside of board - passively cooled by aluminum mast and a board shape designed specifically for Efoiling, Combine with Gong foil and Flipsky drive train and vx5 remote and you are out on the water for under your budget I think.

I initially went the route of converting a board with box strapped on top and although it worked ok - I found the ‘hatch’ a much better solution

Perhaps have a read of some of the build threads here and I think you will see the merits of that approach.

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I think that $1600 Fliteboard is a decent deal. You might be able to find an older one for less if you keep looking. If went with that and did an “adapter plate” build you could have a really nice setup for about $3k (maybe less, rough number). I have two of these and they have been great and feel solid enough to let others try it out without worrying too much.

If you want to modify that wing foil board it would cost less, but probably take more time in the shed. Here are two threads that have a similar kind of build with a cutout:

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Thank you @foilguy and @S_Roger, your input was very helpful! And, I’ve changed course with consideration of your input and further reading of these links and more.

I found a lift2 5’0 without battery or mast for sale in a neighboring town; I made the trip (in my EV), and picked it up.

My revised plan is to follow the foil.zone documented LIFT DIY builds. And I may hang on to the AK Phazer until I am comfortable on the efoil and then potentially try wing-foiling.

While I have the fliteboard DIY builds fresh in my mind, If any one has links applicable to LIFT2 builds, please share. Info such as mast adapters and ESC passive cooling, or if people tend to recycle the water-cooling in OEM E-box?

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Sounds good. If you can find a used Lift mast to go with it that would be even easier (though they are usually over priced). Would fit the board and the Lift motor is very good. Just need to cut off the Lift phase connectors and add your own to connect to a vesc. I think the only downside with a used Lift board is passive cooling isn’t easy like a Flightboard. An aluminum junction box for the ESC with some mineral oil sloshing around inside might work. I’ve seen builds with that setup. Otherwise a water cooling line.

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Thanks!

This being a Lift2, do you know if I am limited to specific Lift generation masts? And if the Lift mast connection is unique, has anyone shared a design for an adapter plate? One down side of the newbie obligatory days of foil.zone reading is that I’ve seen so much, its a blur :face_with_spiral_eyes:

For a newbie on a lake, would a 28" mast be long enough? I see this used mast an motor - USED Lift eFoil Prop. Unit w/28" Mast - Standard Prop. – REAL Watersports

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I think 28" is a reasonable length, fine as a beginner and fine for efoil in general I think.

One other important consideration with a used Lift mast. It will mean you need to track down Lift wings, which shouldn’t be a huge issue and there are definitely used ones out there. And Lift makes good wings so it really won’t be a handicap. The other option is to find an adapter for a different foil brand fuselage ( a “doodad”). Not sure what options are out there for fitting Lift mast to other brands but I know some exist. This is an added expense and then you would also need to buy the other brand foil.

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Not a Lift 2 but it’s the only one I could find here. Not sure why I couldn’t get the link to work but just use the search term I used in attached photo and you can find it.

Lots of Flite based builds so well documented - you will be trailblazing a bit with Lift

IMG_2760
IMG_27601920×1333 249 KB

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Update, I’ve found a LIFT mast with motor that I am working on purchasing from a neighboring state; I’ll need foils for it, presumabley LIFT although I’ve seen some lower mast adapters for LIFT>other brands as a potential option too (I’ll probably initially look for LIFT).

Now I am looking at ESC motor controller options - My searching so far points me toward the flipsky 75200 with integrated water cooling plate which would work well with the LIFT mast and its water cooling plumbing. I see there is also a version without the integrated water cooling plate which could be coupled to a separate water cooling plate, but it seems the integrated version might be a good path for me.

In my flipsky 75200 research, I am seeing 4 options that look like they could be suitable; and would love some input on the differences between these to help me choose.

Here’s are the flipsky ESC options I am seeing and trying to differentiate to consider for this project -

  1. Flipsky 75200 Pro 84V High Current With Aluminum ($146), plus a separate water cooling plate ($20?)
  2. Flipsky 75200 Pro V2.0 With Aluminum PCB ($150), plus a separate water cooling plate ($20?)
  3. Flipsky 75200 84V High Current With Aluminum PCB, and integrated water cooling block ($146)
  4. Flipsky FSESC 75200 75V High Current 200A ESC With Aluminum Case Water Cooling Enclosure For E-Foil Fighting Robot Surfboard ($271)

It looks like flipsky is now primarily building/selling v2.0 which has “phase filters” built onto the board; from what I see, if the older v1 boards are updated with the latest software it is critical to disable phase filtering before any other use to avoid smoking the board. Any insight on which of these models would be best suitable, and why, or recommendations for models I’ve missed is greatly appreciated. #3 with the integrated water cooling looks like a good starting point? Keeping in mind, I like gadgets, I have some experience working with and tuning motor controllers from my Surron e-moto which has a Fardriver 72680 controller, and I am a total newbie with respect to efoil so my needs for “features” may fall on the lower end of the spectrum. I also probably lean more toward a set and forget approach, rather than constantly in tweaking parameters.

For remotes, I’ve primarily seen flipsky and BREmotes. I haven’t dug into this yet either; suggestions welcome.

I am open to used ESC and remotes as well, providing they aren’t too old of tech; I don’t want to save ~$100 if it results in missing out on major incremental tech advancements/functionality. I’m keeping an eye out, but its hard since I don’t know what any of the options are to look for; which makes new flipsky seem appealing.

For battery building, I’ve collected these resources-

  • Ludwig Bre’s well documented efoil battery build as shared on YouTube
  • Associated tools, I think they were Ludwig’s, that help calculate things like bus bar thickness and other related pack design inputs.
  • Some acrylic case building approaches
  • Some 3D printed case building approaches
  • I’ve collected a few suggestions of water proof enclosures from various brands, includig AliExpress.
  • I’ve seen some talk of people utilizing OEM LIFT battery case- I see dead batteries, or just the cases occasionally available although I haven’t seen/saved much discussion or documentation of rebuilding and implementing them.
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Get a Flipsky VX5 remote and then a water-cooled VESC somewhere between 150A to 300A.
The Maytech remotes are nice in hand (V5 also has GPS now), but you need to open and do an extra bit of sealing in them and then eventually their push buttons fail.

I modded a Gong fuselage to the Lift base and then rode Gong wings. This is also a good option: Custom Short Lift Hydrofoil Tails – Foilparts.com

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For ESC options #1 and #2 you linked above, you would need to remove the esc from the housing and place it against a flat metal surface to properly conduct heat. The case for those two has thick fins on the bottom that are better for air cooling (you can see them in the photos). This is not ideal for placing against the flat surface of a water cooling plate. The case is also not waterproofed at all and adds unnecessary weight. #3 is probably the easiest option to set up.

Another option is to try and buy #1 or #2 without the case (email and ask if they would sell one like that I guess). Then set up your own box and cooling plate. The advantage is that the 75200 pro versions have bluetooth built in. This allows you to use the VESC app on a phone to adjust settings and record data and skip the usb cable and laptop process. There are also some watch apps that can connect to the vesc that can be useful. You can get a separate bluetooth board to plug into Option #3, but that uses the only UART port and you will probably want to use that for the remote so data shows up on the screen.

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Excellent info!

One thing I didn’t see is a flipsky 75200 v2.0 PRO with integrated water cooling; I only saw it with the aluminum block cooling. With this LIFT board, I don’t have access to the top of the mast for passive cooling, so from what I can tell I will need to retain the water-cooling approach, unless as mentioned, I used a separate water cooling block.

Does any one know if there a flipsky ESC (or other affordalbe option that is VESC compliant) running v2.0 PRO with integrated watercooling? Or a popular VESC 2.0 that easily mounts to a separate water cooling block? The closest I have in mind (or seen) is the option#2 I posted above which does not have integrated water cooling - Flipsky 75200 Pro V2.0 With Aluminum PCB ($150), plus a separate water cooling plate ($20?)